I'm not sure which offends me more, the racism, or the sexism.

[The Emperor Fabulous]

My girlfriend's a blond. It gets boring.

[Kidlicious]

Originally posted by Mrs Snuggles
And why's that?

You said that you've never met a submissive asian women. Then you said that you know a lot of asian women. Combine that with what you said in the last thread.

[Japher]

To the OP, because I have no idea what Kid is talking about, I would say the bigotry is the biggest issue, the Asian comment is owed more to cultural stereotypes and less towards racism, IMO. The doe-eyed Asian "girl" is something exported by Asian culture and totally devoured by American culture, including bigots.

[Q Classic]

Originally posted by Kidicious
You said that you've never met a submissive asian women. Then you said that you know a lot of asian women.

These are not contradictory.

Combine that with what you said in the last thread.

You mean, this thread?
I view 75 posts per page.

Page 1 has nothing on Asians, just where I get the surprise of you having assumed that I meant something I didn't.

Page 2 is a continuation of that, and we start getting in a tussle about what is and isn't feminism.

Page 3 we continue that discussion, and start arguing semantics.

By Page 4, you start losing it, and start using sexist arguments to buttress your point, trying to cow anyone who doesn't agree with your restrictive, monolithic definition of what entails feminism by branding them as horrible people.

At Page 5, it's pretty much a stalemate, with the multinational force of myself, Elok, and Imran stuck against your (I would say Stalinist, but I think even he allowed for more diversity of thought) words.

Only thrice do I remember mentioning anything about Asia in specific; one was to highlight Singapore's AWARE, and another to mock the stereotype that Asians are cheap, miserly bastards. And one was simply saying that Asians have different methods of communication that were learned through their cultural heritage, or some such.

I didn't say in any of those pages that women should be submissive. I didn't say anything in those pages that women were submissive. Indeed, most of what I said was that even if we held to your big point, that women were predisposed towards being more 'sensitive' and 'nurturing' (which I'm not debating), the methods of displaying such behaviors are culturally linked, particularly towards gender roles.

So, indeed. Please point out how I'm full of ****, Kid-Summer's-Eve.

[Q Classic]

In fact, are you implying that Asian culture forces women to be submissive?

How well-versed in Asian culture are you, if we're going to go the route of giving our experiential credentials?

[Q Classic]

Originally posted by Japher
To the OP, because I have no idea what Kid is talking about, I would say the bigotry is the biggest issue, the Asian comment is owed more to cultural stereotypes and less towards racism, IMO. The doe-eyed Asian "girl" is something exported by Asian culture and totally devoured by American culture, including bigots.

That's the issue--I don't think it's really exported by Asian culture, but rather was ascribed to Asian culture by Westerners confronted with the exotic nature of a very different society, many of whom lacked understanding of the cultural signposts and were trying to understand things without having useful bearings.

[Kidlicious]

Originally posted by Mrs Snuggles
In fact, are you implying that Asian culture forces women to be submissive?

All I asked you is if you knew any asian women. I'm inclined to believe that if you know a lot of asian women that one or two at least would be submissive. You've gone foward with this attack on me because of this.

BTW, I took Asian Cultural studies in college and I've traveled all over Asia. Also, I'm from Fresno, CA which has a large Hmong population. I have many asian friends, although I don't talk with them as much since I've moved.

[Kidlicious]

Originally posted by Mrs Snuggles
You mean,

Saying social rejection is just like physical violence and then continually arguing it.

[Q Classic]

When, after a heated discussion from a previous thread, where you have repeatedly been insulting, condescending, and disingenuous, you cannot presume to say that a quote like:

Do you know any asian women at all?

would not be taken as an offensive, dismissive remark.

If you parse my language correctly, you'll see that I say I have not met any of them. While I know that there are submissive Asian women out there, I've not met them. I've not spoken with them, nor hung out with them. A lot of that could, perhaps, be a function of the crowds I tend to hang out with, I won't deny. It could be that my maternal family (and to a lesser extent, paternal) were all --for all of their conservative political leanings-- staunch feminists and egalitarians, which is why the peers and friends of theirs I met when visiting could hardly be called 'submissive' -- something which was, and to some extent, still is uncommon, in the somewhat paternalistic societies there.

But for those I've met:
Some were quiet, but that's not the same as being submissive.
Some were traditional, but that's not the same as being submissive.
Some were introverted, but that's not the same as being submissive.

So excuse me for being a little defensive, but for you to sneer at me the way you have, by suggesting that I know nothing of which I speak, saying that I'm full of **** with little or no support for what you say...

I'm wondering why I even started to bother reading your posts of late.

[Q Classic]

Originally posted by Kidicious


Saying social rejection is just like physical violence and then continually arguing it.

I did not say it was 'just like', I said it 'equated', which means that the damage they do to a person is just as harmful.

[Kidlicious]

No integrity.

[Q Classic]

Originally posted by Kidicious
BTW, I took Asian Cultural studies in college and I've traveled all over Asia. Also, I'm from Fresno, CA which has a large Hmong population. I have many asian friends, although I don't talk with them as much since I've moved.

Ah, yes. I know a lot of white boys who took Asian Cultural studies and then travelled all over Asia.
Many --but not all-- of them had yellow fever.
Many --but not all-- were round-eyes desperately seeking culture and enlightenment from societies starkly different from what they were used to.
Many --but not all-- ended up coming back to America after 'having seen the world', and settled into a life of white vanilla, liberal 'guilt', and shallow memories of other cultures.

I won't assume that you're one of those sad sacks. But since you're just as insulting of me, I may as well return the favor and simply 'make an observation' on how a lot of 'those people' were 'that way'.

[Q Classic]

Originally posted by Kidicious


No integrity.

That's funny, coming from you.

Particularly since I never used the words 'just like', but more akin to some variation of 'just as harmful'.

Particularly since when you asked me, point blank, in the same slimy way Dukakis was asked about Willie Horton, which I'd prefer.

Particularly when you assumed that I equated shunning to rape, when I hadn't; what's worse, by using it in that fashion, you completely discounted the social, psychological, non-physical effects.

Yes, try and take the high horse.

[Traianvs]

We've all seen porn with Asian women.

nuf said

[Q Classic]

Y'know, even bringing up the social rejection thing doesn't make sense for your argument. Part of the reason for feminism is to combat the social violence perpetrated against women, and civil rights is to combat the the societal rejection/pigeonholing of ethnicities and other minorities.

One could argue that with respect to the original post, we saw an example of social violence towards the Asian woman, perpetrated by another woman--not physical violence at all.