If the entire world was one country...

[Ben Kenobi]

3/4ths to the EU?

You've just made the case for the UK.

'The problem is that the EU hasn't a clue about westminster.

[Heraclitus]

Originally posted by Ben Kenobi
3/4ths to the EU?

You've just made the case for the UK.

'The problem is that the EU hasn't a clue about westminster.

Ben. Ben. Ben.


Why are you arguing against the EU? Haven't you heard that its really a Papist conspiracy to finish what the counter-reformation started?

[C0ckney]

Originally posted by dannubis
Lets say that you Brits haven't really put your money where your mouth is... literally

For the rest, if you don't agree with a general course taken, please get out of the way of those who do.

presumably you'd like france and holland to leave as well...

i think that a lot of continental europeans, especially in the 'founder' countries, need to realise that it's not the 1960s anymore and get over the idea that they own the EU. it's precisely this sort of attitude that provokes hostility towards the europe and not just in britain. with 27 countries, it should not be a huge surprise to discover that there are many different views on the purpose of the EU and its future direction. these views need to be taken into account and respected, rather than dismissed in the arrogant way that we so often see from some quarters.

[Heraclitus]

Originally posted by C0ckney


presumably you'd like france and holland to leave as well...

i think that a lot of continental europeans, especially in the 'founder' countries, need to realise that it's not the 1960s anymore and get over the idea that they own the EU. it's precisely this sort of attitude that provokes hostility towards the europe and not just in britain. with 27 countries, it should not be a huge surprise to discover that there are many different views on the purpose of the EU and its future direction. these views need to be taken into account and respected, rather than dismissed in the arrogant way that we so often see from some quarters.

I think we need to have a two-speed Europe.


The Euro thing is two speed and it works, why not approach the rest of the Union in the same way?

[dannubis]

Originally posted by Heraclitus


I think we need to have a two-speed Europe.


The Euro thing is two speed and it works, why not approach the rest of the Union in the same way?

Bingo !

[Heraclitus]

Originally posted by dannubis


Bingo !

So, ehh, why aren't we doing this?

[C0ckney]

Originally posted by Traianvs
One of the reasons the EU isn't working, if I adhere to your terminology, is because the UK has had an anti-EU policy for years. Blair made a few good openings here and there, but the British reluctance towards the EU remains widespread nonetheless.

You won't hear me say everything is Britain's fault or Poland's fault and so on, but think about this then: Britain doesn't want to yield political power to a higher EU-level. If every country follows that logic, EU institutions (I'm primarily thinking of the council by the way) will keep their conservative voting methods (unanimous consent necessary, implying veto power). Therefore, if the EU needs to make a strong unified statement, it will fail. Pretty much like what happened with Georgia. Noobs like Frattini (that guy really has his head up his arse btw) only cry out their self-interested opinions. At the same time it is those people, in casu the Brits, who complain about poor EU stances when it is negotiating. That's pretty ironic, because it's exactly countries like the UK who don't want EU institutions to become stronger. This of course, at the expense of national governments, but who cares. In our globalized world and especially in the EU, in which 3/4th of national law is replaced by EU law, national governments should try to follow their own course simply to show the world how big their dick is. The colonial times are over.

i agree fratini is an arse.

personally i think we have reached the high watermark of european integration. i would love the EU to become more of a forum for countries to work together closely on things which are achievable with 27 members. things such as trade, the environment, immigration, aiding development in the new member states, being a voice for progress, democracy and human rights around the world.

to take the georiga example. the lack of a unified response is not the result of weak EU institutions but rather because there are big differences between member states about the issue. the UK, nordic countries, poland and the baltic states largely blame russia for the conflict, whereas germany and many southern european states seem to be far more critical of gerogia. whatever position you take personally on the matter, every country has its own interests to think about and will act according to those. how can you have a common position when there is a big disagreement about what it should be? there is little point in a 'strong statement' if everybody knows it is insincere and does not enjoy the support of those on whose behalf it is issued.

you cannot solve differences of opinion by pretending they do not exist for the sake of 'unity'. to say that five of the ten largest economies on the globe are irrelevant in today's world is a counter-productive and dangerous fiction. the gerogia issue does not show us the need for a european foreign policy, but rather the impossibility of having one at all.

[dannubis]

Originally posted by Heraclitus


So, ehh, why aren't we doing this?

Gutless useless politicians ?

[dannubis]

Originally posted by C0ckney

personally i think we have reached the high watermark of european integration. i would love the EU to become more of a forum for countries to work together closely on things which are achievable with 27 members. things such as trade, the environment, immigration, aiding development in the new member states, being a voice for progress, democracy and human rights around the world.

I think wiould should evolve towards a confederation with a heavy focus on local governements. However, in matters of foreign policy, defence, inernational trade, ... it would be up to the central governement.

My 2 cents...