It's war. Part II

[Saras]

Originally posted by GePap


Keep up man - there are things happening in Abkhazia as well.

Given that Gori was the hub for Georgian deployments against S. Ossetia, there is some purely military merit for Russian forces to attack Georgian troops in the area. The only Western journalists I have read about nn the area say the Russians aren't moving into the city of Gori, but fighting around it. If the Russians move into Gori itself and push on, then that is more obvious as a politically driven punitive expedition.

Gori? BBC said Senaki.

[PLATO]

Pictures from Gori...A residential apartment building

[PLATO]

A Gori Civilian

[PLATO]

opps no picture

[PLATO]

A civilian living room in Gori

[PLATO]

Russia has precision weapons just like we do. It is clear they are targeting civilian areas as "punishment". This is in stark contrast to their operational statements.

[DanS]

As far as I know, Russia has precision weapons, but I doubt that their artillery is all that precise. Further, I don't know that they have the equivalent of JDAMs -- cheap precision retrofits on dumb bombs.

[GePap]

Originally posted by PLATO
Russia has precision weapons just like we do. It is clear they are targeting civilian areas as "punishment". This is in stark contrast to their operational statements.

Even "precision" weapons go wrong. If the Russians wanted to level Gori, they could have already (just look at Grozny). So no, its not "clear" that they are intentionally targeting civilians, though the Russian military can't be said to be that discriminating when it is shooting things off.

[Traianvs]

Originally posted by Agathon


How do you know this? So far I have seen Georgian forces rocketing SO, and some burned out Russian tanks. In response, the Russians have tried to force Georgian troops from SO (I don't know whether they have been completely successful in that regard) and and have bombed army barracks and other important logistical targets within Georgia proper.

fail.

Russians have invaded Georgian territory nearby Senaki. The Russian ministry of defense has declared this in the media.
The Russian invasion there is in violation of the earlier agreement that Russia would only venture into the separatist Abkhaz and SO territories. (Funny thing is that this is a SO claim by the way). Yeah Georgia doesn't keep true to its agreement, but neither does Russia.

[onodera]

Well, our bomber destroyed the ammo warehouse in Gori quite precisely. It wasn't us who built residential housing around it. Do you really think a long-range artillery shell or a cruise rocket would break some furniture and leave the living room itself intact?
Go look for some pictures of Tskhinvali instead. Oh, right, heaps of rubble cannot facepalm.
It's not that I'm gloating, but it's relatively minor collateral damage, and while it is not a good thing, it's not that bad compared to what happened in SO.
Why we are taking Gori:
1. Tskhinvali is very close to the border of SO and Georgia proper. We need a demilitarized buffer zone to prevent shelling.
2. It's an important transport hub. If we want to destroy Georgia's military, and we do, we can split their army in half and deal with each half separately by taking it, until they have no tanks, no artillery pieces, no planes, no boats and no military infrastructure left.

I'm personally for minimizing bloodshed whenever possible, but airdropping some spetsnaz on Tbilisi and capturing Saakashvili would be against the rules.

[PLATO]

Originally posted by onodera
Well, our bomber destroyed the ammo warehouse in Gori quite precisely. It wasn't us who built residential housing around it. Do you really think a long-range artillery shell or a cruise rocket would break some furniture and leave the living room itself intact?
Go look for some pictures of Tskhinvali instead. Oh, right, heaps of rubble cannot facepalm.
It's not that I'm gloating, but it's relatively minor collateral damage, and while it is not a good thing, it's not that bad compared to what happened in SO.
Why we are taking Gori:
1. Tskhinvali is very close to the border of SO and Georgia proper. We need a demilitarized buffer zone to prevent shelling.
2. It's an important transport hub. If we want to destroy Georgia's military, and we do, we can split their army in half and deal with each half separately by taking it, until they have no tanks, no artillery pieces, no planes, no boats and no military infrastructure left.

I'm personally for minimizing bloodshed whenever possible, but airdropping some spetsnaz on Tbilisi and capturing Saakashvili would be against the rules.

Okay..fine. Collateral damage. Still, it is quite clear that Russia has accomplished its objective of driving Georgian troops out of South Ossetia. At this point they are clearly in the realm of attacking Georgia out of punitive reasons. Well beyond any justification as peacekeepers.

[onodera]

Last week a boss who's not my boss but shares an immediate boss with my immediate boss sent his kids on a vacation. To Georgia. As far as we know, they are interned right now.

[Saras]

Originally posted by onodera
Last week a boss who's not my boss but shares an immediate boss with my immediate boss sent his kids on a vacation. To Georgia. As far as we know, they are interned right now.

Well let's hope Georgians are not the eeevil bloodsucking vampires some may think they are.

[Agathon]

Originally posted by PLATO


Okay..fine. Collateral damage. Still, it is quite clear that Russia has accomplished its objective of driving Georgian troops out of South Ossetia. At this point they are clearly in the realm of attacking Georgia out of punitive reasons. Well beyond any justification as peacekeepers.

Not necessarily. As I said above, I would degrade the Georgian military to a state of weakness in order that they not attack again. That means destroying logistical capacity, trucks, depots, airfields, etc.

That's just common sense.

Having said that, it would be funny to see them capture that pipeline. "No oil for you!!!"

[Harovan]

Originally posted by onodera
Last week a boss who's not my boss but shares an immediate boss with my immediate boss sent his kids on a vacation. To Georgia. As far as we know, they are interned right now.

I hope the bosses (not your boss, but shares a boss with your boss <-- that made me chuckle) kids are ok and will return well.

Why not put some Georgians in gulags in response? I believe Workuta, Magadan et al. are still thriving?

On the topic, well, I too think it's time to stop the escalation and withdraw, at least behind the borders of Abkhasia and SO, given that Georgia stops the hostilities as well. The goal has been achieved, some additional punishment has been delivered and not even a ****** like Saakashwili would be as foolhardy to pull the same stunt again.