Will Georgia turn into a Moscow satellite?

[Serb]

Originally posted by PLATO
We now have the answer to the thread title:

You had that answer in "It's war part I". Everything came out just exactly like I predicted there:
1) Georgian military will be completely ****ed pretty fast.
2) South Ossetia and Abkhazia will gain independence.

[Serb]

Originally posted by PLATO


I am denying your right to invade countries that have democratically elected governments wherever they are.

Sure thing, it's only the United Sates of America sacred right to do so, but nobody else, right?

[Serb]

Originally posted by PLATO


In some cases I think there is. It is certainly a case by case basis and certainly there needs to be some type of international consensus. So, yes, I think there are times when the world should intervene, but even then it is a dicey business.

Never should the world overthrow the elected government of a country unless that country has precipitated violence on another country or there is iminent danger of them doing so.

1) If you are reffering to Iraq, then it just doesn't work. After a over a decade of embargo, Iraq was a threat to noone, esp. the USA. Your invasion to Iraq was absolutely illegal.
2) Georgia HAS precipitated violence on another country or there is iminent danger of them doing so. Weither South Ossetia was recognized as sovereign country or not - doesn't matter too much. They have violated the cease--fire agreement and launched a full-scale military offence, they bombed their capital and villages, intentionally killed civilians and Russian peacekeepers. THAT IS AGRESSION. And while YOUR ambassodor in UN did his best to block the UN resolution which condemns the Georgian agression ('cause Sukashvili is your loyal puppet... or excuse me your loyal ally), there was no chance for us to force the UN resolution that could stop the Georgian agression. We had to act alone to save our peacekeepers and Ossetian civilians (who were still dying under Georgian fire).

Russia's invasion of Georgia should never have happened.

Just imagine it didn't happen. What's next?
500 Russian peacekeepers KIA, thousands of Ossetian civilians killed, tens of thousands lost their home and run away in fear.
IS THIS WHAT YOU WANTED?

DO YOU JUSTIFY SHELLING OF TSKHINVALI AND OSSETIAN VILLAGES?

DO YOU JUSTIFY GEORGIAN SURPRISE NIGHT ATTACK VS SOUTH OSSETIAN CIVILIANS?

Great.

Russia threatening to attack Poland because of a defensive treaty they signed with the US should never have happened.

Why? If you put a part of US strategic nuclear arsenal which threatens our security, we have a right to aim our missiles to the objects wich we consider a threat for us.
It's really so simple, you can't put a radar, a howitzer, a missile or whatever on a soil of the third country and after that demand that these objects can't be attacked and destroyed in case of war between you and Russia (even if this third country will remain neutral, wich in case of Poland is not, btw).

Russia insinuating they may take action elsewhere should never have happened.

Why we cant? And what action?

Your problem Plato is that you are typical creation of your propaganda and a perfect reflection of US policies towards Russia - you treat us like, I don't know, your slaves, your puppets that kind of thing. Wake-up. WE ARE NOT YOUR LOYAL LACKEYS like your Shmaltic/Shmoland/Kraine/Grogia, etc, who stay in a line to like your precious arse and do obey you.

We have our own national interests. You don't like that? It's your problem.
You have your national interests and you don't give a **** about other countries opinion or the international law when you are on your way to reach them.

So, what action we can take and where is really non of your concern. Command your pet dogs, not us.

Russia has a fundamental misunderstanding of how the rest of the world fears their imperialistic tendancies. It should be clear to all now why NATO not only survived the end of the cold war, but is growing.

We have a perfect understanding of imperialistic tendancies. When we see a growing military block, that surrounds our country and wich we are not allowed to enter, we can ask - against whom this military might is suppose to be used? Teh pinguins of Antarctica? Martians?

Stop sh!ting me, dude.
NATO is an anti-Russian aliance and alwas was.
And you think we should be happy to see it's growing?

[Lancer]

Originally posted by onodera

After reading one too many of Lancer's sabre-rattling posts, anyone can become paranoid.
Also, I'm still working on my post about Ukraine. Had a lot of stuff to do at work today and a birthday party in the evening.

I little 'sabre rattleing' is warrented when the guy next door is carving people up with his.

Hey Serb, glad to have you back.

[DinoDoc]

Originally posted by Serb
Just imagine it didn't happen. What's next?

Rebels with the apparent blessing of Russian peacekeepers would never have attacked Gerogia forcing the government to play into Russian hands and the whole war would never have happened.

[BeBMan]

Sabres

Swords

[Lancer]

M-1 Abrams

[Zkribbler]

2) Georgia HAS precipitated violence on another country or there is iminent danger of them doing so.

Except for the fact that Ossettian separatists were shooting policemen and civilians from out of areas controlled by the Russian "Peacekeepers."

Except for the fact that Russian had its best troops and 1800 tanks just across the border, waiting for an excuse to intervene.

Let's face it, you guys mousetrapped the Georgians. Separatist rebels escalated the violence, hoping to suck the Georgians in. When the Georgians took the bait. SNAP!

[Serb]

Originally posted by Saras


... Russia should have never threatened to arm the Baltic fleet with tactical nukes, Russia should have never threatened to base newest generation OFFENSIVE nuclear-capable IRBM's in Kaliningrad, etc etc.

Why? Kaliningrad is Russian soil. And we are a sovereign (aside you) country and free to move our armed forces within our sovereign internationally recognized borders.
It's really non of your concern where and what type of our hardware is located. So, seriously, why don't you just **** off?

I mean, what's so horrible that has NATO done? NATO has based four fighter jets in the Baltics and is PLANNING a DEFENSIVE missile system in Poland that has NO WAY of intercepting US-bound ICBM's. German Panzers, US German based armour and BOAR ( I like the old name of British Forces Germany) are safely in Germany (I hope re-basing closer to my home, and pronto). No offensive system has moved an inch eastward.

1) You forgot about the radar in Czehia which will scan our space up to Ural.
2) You seem to don't understand that those ten interceptors is just a first move and later this system can be upgraded and technology will improve.
3) The haste with wich Poland signed a deal after the Georgia clearly proves that US stories about Iran as only target for this system and that it will pose no threat to Russia IS JUST A PURE BULLSH!T.
4) And the most important thing. In the modern warfare an advantage in DEFENSE GIVES YOU AND ADVANTAGE IN OFFENSE. So it doesn't really matter if US calls their anti-ballistic missile shield as a pure defensive measure, IT DOES increase THEIR OFFENSIVE POTENTIAL (by decreasing ours).

Seriously, why don't they just **** off?

Seriously, why I am still talking to a nazis? Farewell.

[DinoDoc]

Originally posted by Serb
It's really non of your concern where and what type of our hardware is located. So, seriously, why don't you just **** off?

Those in glass houses shouldn't throw stones, Serb.

[Lancer]

"Why? Kaliningrad is Russian soil. And we are a sovereign (aside you) country and free to move our armed forces within our sovereign internationally recognized borders.
It's really non of your concern where and what type of our hardware is located. So, seriously, why don't you just **** off? "

Same goes for NATO. We can move divisions into Poland, we can let the Ukraine join and move forces there too. We can put tac nuke missiles next to Saras house pointed straight at Moscow. In fact I think we should. Then, we can give the launch switch to Saras wife.

The question Serb, is should we? Right now, considering the way Russia is using its forces, I think we should, and I think Saras wife would agree with me. Nuf said.

[Serb]

Originally posted by DinoDoc
Rebels with the apparent blessing of Russian peacekeepers would never have attacked Gerogia forcing the government to play into Russian hands and the whole war would never have happened.

That's just lie, bullsh!t and a cynical justification of the agressor's actions.
Did Ossetians launch a full-scale military invasion of the Georgian soil? No. It was Georgians who started this.
So why the f*ck you justify the agression commited by that "son of the b!tch"? It's pretty obvious because he is your "son of the b!tch". If ANYONE, ANYWHERE KILLED a dozen of YOUR peacekeepers and started a massive campaign of city destruction and hundreds of your peacekeepers were still under attack and their lives were in danger, I am absolutely sure you would REACT IN EVEN MORE BRUTAL WAY and turned the agressor country to complete ruins.

Once again, do you justify the Georgian full-scale attack against the South Ossetia (bombing of Tskhinvali and Ossetian villages)?

Yes or no.

[Zkribbler]

The Ossettian separatists were wrong.
The Georgians were wrong.
The Russian were wrong.

[Lancer]

Serb, where you there? I was not. When and if Russia pulls its troops back then human rights groups, the UN, and PETA will go in there and see wtf happened. Maybe that's why Russia doesn't leave Georgia as promised?

[DinoDoc]

Originally posted by Serb
[Russian whining]

We stopped engineering attacks on our military in the 70's Serb. We wouldn't have given the Rebels the greenlight to attack so the question of your other lie about thousands of civilians dead is irrealevent.