Will Georgia turn into a Moscow satellite?

[Patroklos]

sure we do, but you and Russians could finally start a War in the far east on Aleut islands or thereabouts, have a place to use all those conventional weapon inventories, just make sure not to kill all the bears and leave Europe out of it

Hey, we let you drag us into two world wars, the least you can do is let us drag you into one

[binTravkin]

Patroklos, get your history right, Japan started WW2 for US and US was barely in WWI having deployed as little as 200k soldiers to Europe (out of which less than half reached the front), compared to several million europeans.

[Patroklos]

Did Germany declare war on the US first, or the US on Germany?

As for your WWI revisionism, the fact that the US suffered 116,000 military fatalities in that war is at odds with your statement. Are you saying we suffered greater than 50% killed?

[carnide_]

Back on thread theme

Russian soldiers take prisoners in Georgia port.


Russian soldiers took 20 Georgian troops prisoner at a key port in western Georgia on Tuesday, blindfolding them and holding them at gunpoint, and commandeered American Humvees awaiting shipment back to the United States.

http://news.yahoo.com/story//ap/20080819/ap_on_re_eu/georgia_russia

[DanS]

I lost a great granduncle to that war, I'm sad to say.

[carnide_]

Originally posted by DanS
I lost a great granduncle to that war, I'm sad to say.

I'm sorry to know that.

My grandfather also fought there.

[binTravkin]

Did Germany declare war on the US first, or the US on Germany?

Japan DoWed US first and Germany as Japan's ally had no real option but to follow suit.
Technically Germany was at war with US ever since someone in US decided to send lend-lease stuff.

As for your WWI revisionism, the fact that the US suffered 116,000 military fatalities in that war is at odds with your statement. Are you saying we suffered greater than 50% killed?

Yeah, you caught me there on bad memory, but nevertheless it's no use to mention US WWI effort, it was nowhere near the main belligerents, as opposed to WWII.

Russian soldiers took 20 Georgian troops prisoner at a key port in western Georgia on Tuesday, blindfolding them and holding them at gunpoint, and commandeered American Humvees awaiting shipment back to the United States.

See, "pulling troops out" has very many meanings in Russian.

[Patroklos]

Japan DoWed US first and Germany as Japan's ally had no real option but to follow suit.
Technically Germany was at war with US ever since someone in US decided to send lend-lease stuff.

This is not HOI, Germany did not have to do anything. The fact that declaring war on the US brought not a single benefit to Germany and that Japan was less than forthright with thier intentions to their allies reinforces this.

Germany declared war on the US, Germany brought us into Europe.

Yeah, you caught me there on bad memory, but nevertheless it's no use to mention US WWI effort, it was nowhere near the main belligerents, as opposed to WWII.

Despite being wrong regardless, you need to look at the context of this line of discussion given this thread.

[binTravkin]

This is not HOI, Germany did not have to do anything. The fact that declaring war on the US brought not a single benefit to Germany and that Japan was less than forthright with thier intentions to their allies reinforces this.

Germany declared war on the US, Germany brought us into E

No, land-lease did.
Besides US would declare on Germany anyway.

And it's interesting you mention HoI.

Despite being wrong regardless, you need to look at the context of this line of discussion given this thread.

W/e

[Lancer]

Re: Back on thread theme

Originally posted by carnide_
Russian soldiers take prisoners in Georgia port.


Russian soldiers took 20 Georgian troops prisoner at a key port in western Georgia on Tuesday, blindfolding them and holding them at gunpoint, and commandeered American Humvees awaiting shipment back to the United States.

http://news.yahoo.com/story//ap/2008...georgia_russia

I thought they exchanged prisoners? They grabbed more?

They stole US military equipment, ok now I'm pissed.

[Zkribbler]

This morning, CNN shows video of the blindfolded Georgians being taken off in a truck and at least one U.S. humvee of Iraq-war vintage being driven off in a Russian convey.

CNN also reports that there is very little, if any, effort being made by the Russians to withdraw today.

[Ellestar]

Originally posted by DinoDoc
Russia blockades port in Georgia and seizes soldiers
Published: August 19, 2008

As a bonus that story was linked to at the end of your op-ed by the Russian official. Perhaps it is you that needs to improve his grasp of the English language?

So? They didn't kill them, right? So a cease-fire is still in effect

Originally posted by binTravkin
You are not exposing anything with speculations like in your above post.
To expose lies you must have facts that show the opposite.

Before saying something like this, you should think what are you posting. I gave you the links (like, forging in western press or our legal reason for a military actions), and you said they're not facts. Then what is a fact for you?

Originally posted by binTravkin
Well, it takes a very special kind of person to not notice that the opinions of this conflict differ so much in Russia and basically the whole World.
And it repeats over and over. There must be some catch, shouldn't there?

Well, of course there is a catch, Georgia is your ally so you don't care if they kill civilians or start wars. That's exactly what i'm talking about, double standarts and hypocrisy.

Originally posted by binTravkin Or let me phrase it the other way - have you ever thought why there is always Russian press and "Western" press?
Why there was no such sharp distinction say in U.S. before and during Iraq war, or in any other democratic country for that matter?

It's widely accepted that USA invaded Iraq for all the wrong reasons and obviously without any justification (like UN mandate or something). If you'll check this link, we had legal reasons for that war. Still, west supported US invasion and occupation of Iraq and opposes Russian peacekeeping mission. As you see from these *facts*, Western press is obviously biased.

Originally posted by binTravkin Will you also pretend that Russians haven't taken Poti now (when they were supposed to be going out full steam for a full 24h now)?
You have to learn not to be hypocritical yourself before you call others hypocritical.
Otherwise you risk to sound, well, like Russian propaganda..

They were there before too, re-read that article plz. Besides, the order in which the troops withdraw is not defined. It doesn't mean that troops don't withdraw somewhere else.

Originally posted by binTravkin
See, "pulling troops out" has very many meanings in Russian.

Last time i checked US troops are still in Iraq. So you're not in a good position to say something like that.

[binTravkin]

Well, of course there is a catch, Georgia is your ally so you don't care if they kill civilians or start wars. That's exactly what i'm talking about, double standarts and hypocrisy.

You have a reading or interpreting problem. I stated that it repeats over and over, no matter what the country is, Chechnya, Georgia, Mountain Karabakh, Baltic states, etc.

we had legal reasons for that war

US had too, the WMD and stuff, yet there were many (a bit less than half of the population according to surveys) people in the US itself opposing the war.
In Russia it seems like everyone or nearly everyone is pro-war, a view which you and other Russian members of this forum only reinforce.

west supported US invasion and occupation of Iraq

"west"? Who is him/her/it?
I don't remember any distinct political entity or social group unilaterally supporting Iraq war.

Besides, the order in which the troops withdraw is not defined. It doesn't mean that troops don't withdraw somewhere else.

Lol, so if I, as a Russian commander, would order attack on Tbilisi while some column with wounded troops departs to my bases in Russia, I'd still be "withdrawing".
Interesting point of view..
Or may I say, another example how Russians explain common concept to their own good?

Last time i checked US troops are still in Iraq. So you're not in a good position to say something like that.

You show problems with critical thinking.
US never signed an agreement or gave promise that obliges them to withdraw troops.
You are defending your country even when it's obviously not keeping it's promises.

Ahh, and this is August 20th, 2 days after the withdrawal had to be started and there are still no news of real withdrawal.
And the Russian president announced just yesterday the troops will be out by friday. I wonder what's the next date he will mention.

[Julian Delphiki]

Originally posted by binTravkin
Ahh, and this is August 20th, 2 days after the withdrawal had to be started and there are still no news of real withdrawal.
And the Russian president announced just yesterday the troops will be out by friday. I wonder what's the next date he will mention.

And I wonder who is in command (and I'm not the only one). Maybe PM did not give permission to withdraw the troops.

[binTravkin]

And when they are asked to just do what they promised they do just what?

Bingo, they block an UN resolution asking them to just start doing it at last!

http://www.cbc.ca/world/story/2008/08/20/russia-georgia.html