Will Georgia turn into a Moscow satellite?

[DanS]

Originally posted by carnide_
Nough said!

No, I don't think enough has been said. I asked a reasonable and very basic question and expect a reasonable answer from you.

I'm keeping an open mind about it.

[RGBVideo]

Originally posted by DanS
I'm pretending to be stupid so I appear intelligent in front of people who haven't read about the background of this case during the past few years.

By far the most interesting thing about this invasion is Bush's reaction.

A reforming, pro-western leader gains power in Caucasus. He promises democracy, gains US support. US starts sending armaments & economic aid. Practically speaking, US and Georgia become allies. All of a sudden, Russia invades Georgia with a half-hearted justification. US reacts swiftly and immediately... by calling an immediate end to hostilities.

What is the value of friendship with US after this demonstration of it's loyalty?

[carnide_]

Ok, I'm going to tell why I think he is not fit for the job:
- The war on terror is a fiasco.
- The war on Afghannistan is subfunded
- The problems with tribal Pakistan are being mishandled.
- The oil supply to the western world is in jeopardy
- Lost control of Georgia pipelines
- Turkey is turning islamit
- Chavez is still ruling
- No new Cuba politic offer, to help the change to democracy
- Moscow is courting Cuba again,
- Irak is a bloody mess
- USA economy is turning the american dream into the american nightmare
- Oil price skyrocket
- Life is harder to everyone in the western world
- The dollar value shrinking
- No contention politic to China
- Iran is getting the bomb
- Katrina handling
I could go on, and on, and on. We all know it.
- - -
But we must look into the future:
How to stop Georgia fall?

[DanS]

Originally posted by carnide_
Ok, I'm going to tell why I think he is not fit for the job:

I asked you specifically what you propose that Bush should have done with respect to Georgia.

Am I to read that you don't have a proposal?

[carnide_]

Yes, I dont have a proposal.
The situation is a nightmare, and I really dont know what is the best thing to do now.
Honest.

Thats why I asked:

But we must look into the future:
How to stop Georgia fall?

- - -
BTW:
Bush just made a TV anouncement.
Summed up: "Russia is a bad boy".

[Traianvs]

Originally posted by Saras
well if that happens certain undergarments here will be very wet. But I don't think so. Saak is genuinely liked by over 50% of population, his rule has in general brought an end to rampant corruption, has facilitated extreme rates of economic growth and substantial foreign investment, so he should be able to retain power - but not in the way Russian nationalists understand it. The ideas he stands for are those of the majority of Georgians, without having to resort on brainwashing or propaganda, as in Russia.

He does oppress dissident opinion quite violently. Public demonstrations can count on harsh countermeasures. Also, corruption still rages hard. Georgians are natural born fixers and tax-evasing frauds .

PS: They're hardcore in Antwerp (European maffia capital), only bested by Russians and especially Chechens in terms of sheer brutality. Georgians are more refined in their schemes
It's surprising how many gansters from the former Soviet Union roam about over here. They form the bulk of organized crime (except for drug trafficking, which is primarily in Dutch hands)

[Elok]

Originally posted by carnide_
- Turkey is turning islamit
- Chavez is still ruling
- Oil price skyrocket

The others, I grant you. At least partially. And I'm no fan of Bush. But WTF was he supposed to do for these three? Witness for Jesus in Istanbul? Have the CIA "talk" with the Venezuelans a la Kennedy? Or just convince China and India to stop buying oil so the price would stay down?

[Zkribbler]

Originally posted by carnide_
...
But we must look into the future:
How to stop Georgia fall?

My best guess is that it's already been done:
*The E.U. and the U.S. have reacted far stronger than Moscow was expecting.
*While it would be fun for Russia to gobble up Georgia, it would face nasty political and economic fallout from the E.U., U.S. and the former Soviet republic states of Eastern Europe. It's not worth the cost.
* Ukraine is threatening to do a reverse blockade and prevent the Russian fleet from re-entering its ports.
* I'll speculated that at least one U.S. carrier group is heading into the Black Sea.
* The stated goals of the Russians was to rescue the two breack-away areas from teh evil Georgians. That goal has been met. The Russians can claim victory.

[Ben Kenobi]

Wow Bush must be a God.

People blame him for everything that goes bad in their life.

They step on a turd, it's Bush's fault.

Give him time! It's going to take awhile for things to get worked out and I find it hilarious that the same folks *****ing about the war in Iraq are *****ing about him using diplomacy first.

Would you be cheering Bush on if he nuked Moscow in response to the invasion of Georgia?

Putin isn't going to get to keep Georgia. They fought hard for independence in 1991, they are not going to return to the yoke of mother Russia again. The question is both how this is going to play out and how the US is going to stand up for their ally in Georgia.

Look at what happened in World War II. Hitler invaded Poland in 1939, and it took two days before France mobilized, and after the Germans rejected the ultimatum given by the British and the French for immediate withdrawal from Poland.

The same will happen here. The US has to figure out how they want to present an ultimatum to Russia to vacate the territory of Georgia, and only after Russia declines the ultimatum will the US intervene.

[Zkribbler]

Originally posted by Ben Kenobi
... only after Russia declines the ultimatum will the US intervene.

With what??? We're already fighting two wars now.

I guess we could sent Chaney over to take Pooty-Poot-Poot out hunting, but other than that, we don't have a lot to intervene with.

[Ben Kenobi]

With what??? We're already fighting two wars now.

What wars? All I hear is that immediate withdrawal won't have bad consequences, so why shouldn't the US be able to pull their forces out of Iraq and Afghanistan if the Russians refuse to step back?

If you are talking about immediate withdrawal then that seems to me, they are just about wrapped up.

I guess we could sent Chaney over to take Pooty-Poot-Poot out hunting, but other than that, we don't have a lot to intervene with.

Dig a little deeper. Maybe you don't see Georgia as worth it, but trust me, they are. Having solid and secure democracies in that part of the world would be a great benefit to the US, which is why we are seeing the Russians attack now.

The other thing, is to offload more on NATO in Iraq and Afghanistan, while the US ramps up here.

[Zkribbler]

What wars? All I hear is that immediate withdrawal won't have bad consequences, so why shouldn't the US be able to pull their forces out of Iraq and Afghanistan if the Russians refuse to step back?

No one that I've heard has expressed any wish to pull out of Afghanistan.


Besides, even if we decided to intervene with ground troops, by the time we could transport them to Georgia, any conventional war there would be long since over.

[Ben Kenobi]

Besides, even if we decided to intervene with ground troops, by the time we could transport them to Georgia, any conventional war there would be long since over.

If Americans can return the Georgians, they can get their own troops in. Don't forget that since they have bases in northern Iraq, it isn't hard to airlift troops into Georgia.

What the Georgians are doing is pulling back to the lesser Caucasus, and protecting the capital. I don't see what's preventing the US from shoring them up. Then, if the US can get a carrier into the Black sea, that's a major deterrent.

The Georgians aren't going to stop fighting the Russians.

[Kirnwaffen]

So, I gather that you think the US is just going to redeploy troops into Georgia, smash the Russian forces and everyone will live happily ever after?

[snoopy369]

Ben, you're hilarious. I hope you're heading off to clown college, 'cause you could cite that post as your entrance essay.