Colorado Going Color Blind

[Lorizael]

Originally posted by chegitz guevara
Yes, I would call trying to end one of the few programs we have which has helped to ameliorate racism, racist. You are trying to stop racism from being ended, and thus causing racism to continue. That makes you racist.

And I'm especially racist because I've offered no alternatives to affirmative action in this thread! Man, could I be more of a douche?

[chequita guevara]

Your solution is to fix a different problem, not the problem being addressed by affirmative action. BTW, the problem you claim you'd like to fix is one already addressed by schools, btw.

If your car's tires have gone flat, you don't change the shocks and keep trying to drive on flat tires, even if the shocks do need changing.

[Lorizael]

Originally posted by chegitz guevara
Your solution is to fix a different problem, not the problem being addressed by affirmative action.

I believe otherwise. I believe that giving everybody an equal opportunity to succeed in society without regards to race or sex (or whatever) helps people see that black people, women, and other minorities are just as capable as white men.

If a racist person sees a black person in college with them and a program like affirmative action exists, the racist person may very well think something along the lines of, "That dumb ****** is only here because of affirmative action. Damn that affirmative action!"

If a racist person sees a black person in college with them and a program like the ones suggested by me and others exists, the racist person may very well think something along the lines of, "Hmm, maybe those negroes aren't so bad after all!"

Actually, I don't have that much faith in humankind. But what I do think might happen is that the child of a racist person, who might not have formed a solid opinion on the subject yet, may swing to the racist side if they witness what they believe to be discrimination, and may swing to the non-racist side if they see an equally capable black person who was not favored by the system.

BTW, the problem you claim you'd like to fix is one already addressed by schools, btw.

Poorly. Very poorly.

[Ben Kenobi]

If you want me to treat you as intelligent, you must at intelligent. I treat everyone as if they are intelligent, until they prove me otherwise. You have, I am sorry to say, consistently proven otherwise.

And I've consistently been on the opposite side. Coincidence? I don't think so.

[chequita guevara]

Originally posted by Lorizael
Poorly. Very poorly.

And you know this how?

Finally, as for conscience race haters, what they think about people getting in to school is irrelevant. Oh noes! We can't oppose racism because racists will be upset! It's not about convincing racists of anything. It is about helping people who are affected by racism.

[Lorizael]

Originally posted by chegitz guevara

Originally posted by Lorizael
Poorly. Very poorly.

And you know this how?

*blink blink* Are you, the revolutionary communist, supporting the establishment?

You think our schools do a good job of educating the poor? You think our colleges do a good job of evaluating the difference between an intelligent, knowledge-hungry individual and one who just scores well on the right tests? You think our culture promotes far-sighted, responsible living?

Finally, as for conscience race haters, what they think about people getting in to school is irrelevant. Oh noes! We can't oppose racism because racists will be upset! It's not about convincing racists of anything. It is about helping people who are affected by racism.

If all affirmative action is meant to do is help people who are affected by racism then it will never actually solve racism. You're not getting at the root problem, here. Affirmative action will be "necessary" forever if nothing is done to actually change our society so that people aren't racist anymore.

Programs that exacerbate racial tensions - such as affirmative action - prolong the existence of racism in society. Programs that expose people to other people, to new ideas, to different cultures - these help combat the actual problem of racism.

[Imran Siddiqui]

Originally posted by Ben Kenobi
And I've consistently been on the opposite side. Coincidence? I don't think so.

So has, say, DinoDoc... but I don't recall anyone on the left calling him a idiot. Hit and run poster perhaps .

[DinoDoc]

So has, say, DinoDoc... but I don't recall anyone on the left calling him a idiot.

Well to be honest there has been a few people who do that but no one likes them much anyway.

Hit and run poster perhaps

Efficient poster would be my prefered term.

[Ben Kenobi]

So has, say, DinoDoc... but I don't recall anyone on the left calling him a idiot. Hit and run poster perhaps

I'm sure if I became a comrade his impression of me would go up markedly.

[DinoDoc]

I don't think he likes Kid that much either Ben.

[Imran Siddiqui]

Exactly.

Your argument doesn't work so well Ben, because che has indeed called plenty of his own mentally deficient as well.

[Ben Kenobi]

I just don't get the antipathy honestly.

I think it's so silly.

If Che were to come out this way I'd invite him for drinks and whatnot. Wouldn't think twice about it.

I don't agree with him, but that doesn't make him any less deserving of respect. I don't go out of my way to call him an idiot, or to make him look bad.

I don't even expect him to agree with me. That's not my bag. I always learn stuff in discussions.

I know some of you feel it's like banging heads against a wall, that's really not the case at all.

[DinoDoc]

Feel free to knick that quote of his in my sig for yourself if it makes you feel better.

[Barnabas]

What about minorities like jews and east asians who do great in college and are over represented considering their % of the population of the country?

Should we make things more difficult for them?

PS: I don't agree