Poly is making me right wing

[chequita guevara]

[Imran Siddiqui]

I think the main problem is that Ben can't acknowledge (EVER) that a socialist or leftie may have a good idea. So Dr. King has to be a conservative. Because, obviously he had great ideas, but he can't if he's a socialist and those two, I hesitate to call them, thoughts can't co-exist.

More open and intelligent individuals realize that people who don't share our entire political viewpoint are capable of doing great things and having great ideas.

For example, I am not a socialist and I think its a bad idea; however, I acknowledge that Dr. King was a socialist and had great ideas on civil rights. See... if you repect people, you can make that distinction.

[Kontiki]

Yes, but MLK believed in God and didn't want those dirty homos to marry, so he has to be a conservative.

[Ben Kenobi]

Ramo:

I have to ask, why do you believe Goldwater voted against the 1965 National Voters Rights Act?

He had to resign his seat to run for the presidency. He didn't return to the senate until 1968.

There were two other Republicans who voted against it but the remainder of the Republicans voted in support. In fact the bill was supported by more Republicans then Democrats, despite the fact that there were twice as many Democrats in the congress.

[Ben Kenobi]

I think the main problem is that Ben can't acknowledge (EVER) that a socialist or leftie may have a good idea.

I think FDR had some good ideas.

So Dr. King has to be a conservative. Because, obviously he had great ideas, but he can't if he's a socialist and those two, I hesitate to call them, thoughts can't co-exist.

No, they can't.

More open and intelligent individuals realize that people who don't share our entire political viewpoint are capable of doing great things and having great ideas.

I already said there are socialists who had good ideas. Even a blind horse can find water.

For example, I am not a socialist and I think its a bad idea; however, I acknowledge that Dr. King was a socialist and had great ideas on civil rights. See... if you repect people, you can make that distinction.

So remind me again why you see Dr. King as a socialist? Because he cared about poor people and campaigned for civil rights and social justice?

[Ben Kenobi]

John Kenneth Galbraith

So Dr. King is a Keynesian? I didn't know Keynesians were socialists.

[Ben Kenobi]

90% of the black vote in SC is about 40% of the total primary electorate. So thanks for yet another tautology.

Please stop acting like you know anything about America. Please.

Then how do you explain the fact that sharpton was supported on a 2-1 basis by black people if in fact black people don't care about voting for folks just because they are black?

[Ben Kenobi]

You come up with the most asinine arguments. How many people do you think consider Thurmond a "classic liberal" rather than a "conservative",

Wait a sec. Before I answer the Thurmond question, I want you to answer the question I've asked you three times.

Is Margaret Sanger a conservative?

and since when have conservatives been against the concept of states' rights (they do constantly violate their position on it though). Reagan campaigned on states rights. As did Nixon. Bush II even made plenty of reference to it.

Clearly their concept of states rights is different. They believe the powers should be divided in a different fashion. Yes, they believe in states rights more so then a statist, but not so much as classical liberals. That is the crux of the difference.

WTF?!!!! You can't say that conservatives think we should have stayed in Vietnam longer because of 9/11! That was a philosophy conservatives have been advocating since the late 80s. Dan Quayle famously said in the 1988 campaign for one.

Umm, ok Imran. I'm going to leave you go off on that tangent. I am arguing that conservatives wanted out of Vietnam because it was LBJ who got them in. That is all I was saying. I don't see what Quayle has to do with Nixon's platform in 1968.

You said King said the law ought to be followed. You've been shown wrong. He said that when the law is unjust it shouldn't be followed.

Dr. King had conservative support because he believed it was not right to break just laws even when trying to get rid of unjust laws. It showed his concern for the rule of law

If you meant to say all along that he believed just laws should be followed, then WTF?! Who DOESN'T believe that? If you think a law is just, of course you are going to follow it

There are many people who believe that it is ok to break a just law in order to correct an unjust one. That is a recipe for civil disobedience with violence and property destruction, because they believe that the bigger injustice exists and that in order to correct things requires one to break other laws to get the point across.

[Wezil]

Originally posted by Ben Kenobi
Even a blind horse can find water.

Really? When is your turn?

[chequita guevara]

[Kontiki]

Originally posted by Wezil


Really? When is your turn?

Probably not for a while:

In fact the bill was supported by more Republicans then Democrats, despite the fact that there were twice as many Democrats in the congress.

Votes for:
Senate: Democrats 47, Republicans 30
House: Democrats 221, Republicans 112

[Ramo]

I have to ask, why do you believe Goldwater voted against the 1965 National Voters Rights Act?

I never said that. I said that he opposed it.

Goldwater (and Reagan) also opposed the 1965 Voting Rights Act as "unnecessary" -- though without it blacks had been effectively disenfranchised and with it they regained the right to vote.

http://www.news-record.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20080528/NRSTAFF/805280310/-1/OPINION

So Dr. King is a Keynesian? I didn't know Keynesians were socialists.

King spent the last year of his life campaigning for a guaranteed annual income. He was preparing for a huge march on Washington to bring it about. You're calling him a conservative?

I am arguing that conservatives wanted out of Vietnam because it was LBJ who got them in. That is all I was saying.

That's incredibly specious logic that has nothing to do with what the conservative movement was pushing for at the time. They thought that LBJ wasn't doing what was needed to win (i.e. invading North Vietnam, using nukes, etc.). Nixon, as it happened, said a number of contradictory things about Vietnam that campaign
depending on who he was talking with.

There are many people who believe that it is ok to break a just law

If you believe that it's ok to break a law, it is by definition unjust at least in its general application.

Then how do you explain the fact that sharpton was supported on a 2-1 basis by black people if in fact black people don't care about voting for folks just because they are black?

Let's recap. You claimed that: "It really doesn't matter who it is. If they are prominent and black they will get around 90 percent of their vote and support. It's the way of the world." That is completely wrong and demonstrates that you know absolutely nothing about American politics.

[Ben Kenobi]

Votes for:
Senate: Democrats 47, Republicans 30
House: Democrats 221, Republicans 112

Thanks Kontiki for correcting me and not Ramo.

Glad to see people are concerned about the facts!

I must ask you, do you see Goldwater anywhere on that list?

[Ben Kenobi]

He opposed the Civil Rights Act of 1964 and the Voting Rights Act of 1965, which together constituted the most important legal culmination of the civil rights movement.

Based on what Ramo, divination? Did you resurrect Goldwater and asked him what he thought about the Voting Rights Act of 1965.

[Ben Kenobi]

King spent the last year of his life campaigning for a guaranteed annual income. He was preparing for a huge march on Washington to bring it about. You're calling him a conservative?

Yes sir.

That's incredibly specious logic that has nothing to do with what the conservative movement was pushing for at the time. They thought that LBJ wasn't doing what was needed to win (i.e. invading North Vietnam, using nukes, etc.). Nixon, as it happened, said a number of contradictory things about Vietnam that campaign
depending on who he was talking with.

Which is why his unquestioned support of the war in vietnam lead him to a massive victory.

Right, I see how that works.

If you believe that it's ok to break a law, it is by definition unjust at least in its general application.

Not if you think the unjust law is a more important injustice then breaking the just law.

Let's recap. You claimed that: "It really doesn't matter who it is. If they are prominent and black they will get around 90 percent of their vote and support. It's the way of the world." That is completely wrong and demonstrates that you know absolutely nothing about American politics.

And you are telling me that if Jesse Jackson were white and he said "I was Dr. King's homeboy" that he would get 90 percent of the black vote?