Poly is making me right wing

[MOBIUS]

Originally posted by Zevico
There have been countless movements of all political stripes that have supported the ideologies you mention in in practice and in theory.

Everything I mentioned was vehemently opposed by the Conservative party in the UK. Essentially that is why they are called 'conservatives' after all, they are resistant to change.

Only once they see that the changes aren't as bad as they feared, only then do they support it. though I fear this is more paying lip service than actually genuinely supporting it, principally because they would be unelectable otherwise...

I suspect a great number of conservatives today are still secretly racist/chauvenist/homophobic. Probably why for example that whenever the BNP does well in this country, it is at the expense of the Conservative vote - probably also why I can think of plenty of right wing posters on Poly who have made homophobic comments on this site, but I can't think for the life of me of one left wing poster that has done the same...

You are simply making a fool of yourself by speaking about the terms 'left' and 'right' wing without limiting your argument to a predefined and extremely limited context.

And you are simply making a fool of yourself by firmly nailing your colours to Ben Kenobi's, er, cross...

[Imran Siddiqui]

I should start a new thread "Ben is making me left wing"

[Arrian]

Originally posted by aneeshm

So it appears that I, a hardcore right-winger since around age of sixteen, am completely heartless?

You're the Indian equivalent of a college Republican. So... yeah.

-Arrian

[Kidlicious]

Originally posted by aneeshm


So it appears that I, a hardcore right-winger since around age of sixteen, am completely heartless?

It took you that long to realise that?

[C0ckney]

Originally posted by MOBIUS
I suspect a great number of conservatives today are still secretly racist/chauvenist/homophobic. Probably why for example that whenever the BNP does well in this country, it is at the expense of the Conservative vote.

this simply isn't true. the BNP tends to do well in working class areas which have experienced high levels of immigration. these areas tend to be labour and it is primarily at their expense that the BNP profits.

when you make an assertion based on certain facts, it's a good idea to check that those facts actually hold true…

And you are simply making a fool of yourself by firmly nailing your colours to Ben Kenobi's, er, cross...

actually, zevico is dead right and you are talking rubbish.

[Kidlicious]

Originally posted by Ben Kenobi
Wow!

So it's immoral for people to make more money then someone else? Wow. If I work 4 hours and you work 8, I should think you would expect to make more then me.

Inequality!= Poverty.

Why would I only work 4 hours? That's not equal either. Man, you really are making things confusing. What's wrong with simple equality. Ask yourself if you really believe in that. If not, stop claiming too.

And it's not immoral just to make more money than someone else. I think it's wrong to think that you are superior to someone else and therefore deserve more than them. If you say you believe in equality I call that dishonest.

Dude, if you think people are subconsciously looking down on you because you are poor, you need therapy. Seriously. That's paranoia.

No. That's reality. Try it out some time. It's not that bad.

[Ben Kenobi]

Reagan, the man who did absolutely nothing for abortion or "traditional values", who appointed a defender of abortion on the Supreme Court (Sandra Day O'Connor) when he had a chance of getting rid of Roe.

He also appointed Scalia, and O'Connors was believed to be a moderate republican at the time.

His main legacies are all in the economic and foriegn affairs field.

Appointing Scalia is pretty high up there.

If he's your conservative, then I'm not sure why you quibble so.

He's one of the few social conservatives out there.

You do realize what "Manifest Destiny" means right? (Wait, obviously you don't, not really knowing much about American history) Purchasing land has nothing to do with a God given right to expand.

Yeah, I am well aware of the policy of Manifest Destiny.

And besides, I think that perhaps the expansion of US territory under Polk may have been greater.

Polk, the arch conservative?

JFK being far more conservative than Stevenson, you mean?

1962 seems to be the breach, with the Great Society. Seriously Reagan lays it all out in his convention speech to Goldwater.

How was Disraeli a liberal otherwise? The group that was founded based on his politics (Primrose League) were concerned with British traditions.

Radicals are like extra liberals. Harder left then liberals.

The HUGE fallacy you've brought forward is that liberals and socialists can't be religious. That is so utterly false that we ALL are laughing at you. Please, tell me, is Jon Miller not a Christian to you then?

That's not what I said I said socialists tend to be materialists, which is contrary to Christianity.

[Ben Kenobi]

Why would I only work 4 hours? That's not equal either.

Not everyone is equally productive.

Man, you really are making things confusing. What's wrong with simple equality. Ask yourself if you really believe in that. If not, stop claiming too.

It's not fair to reward those who produce less with the same compensation. That discourages people from working harder since their pay is now the smas as before.

And it's not immoral just to make more money than someone else. I think it's wrong to think that you are superior to someone else and therefore deserve more than them. If you say you believe in equality I call that dishonest.

I've rejected that notion already.

No. That's reality. Try it out some time. It's not that bad.

Is that the new MMORPG everyone's been talking about? I don't think anyone has even beaten it yet.

[Kidlicious]

Originally posted by Ben Kenobi
Not everyone is equally productive.

So you admit that being more productive makes someone superior. I'm sure there are other reasons you can give us as well. But does a 50% increase in productivity make someone 300% superior or something like that. Do you measure it somehow, or do you just try to make sure the more productive people get as much as they can get, while the unproductive people eat ****?

It's not fair to reward those who produce less with the same compensation. That discourages people from working harder since their pay is now the smas as before.

The question is if they deserve the same amount or a different amount. How to encourage people is a different matter. If they deserve the same amount and you pay them less that's an injustice.

I've rejected that notion already.

So you just said that it's moral to think that you are superior to others and to think that you deserve more.

Is that the new MMORPG everyone's been talking about? I don't think anyone has even beaten it yet.

If you don't think people look down you because you are poor you live in another world.

[Imran Siddiqui]

Originally posted by Ben Kenobi
He also appointed Scalia, and O'Connors was believed to be a moderate republican at the time.

And O'Connor was a moderate Republican. As was Kennedy (who also was for precedent, which is what moderate Republicans like).

Appointing Scalia is pretty high up there.

Scalia was appointed, far more, for his beliefs on federalism.

Yeah, I am well aware of the policy of Manifest Destiny.

No, apparently you are not.

Polk, the arch conservative?

He was no liberal. He was, after all, all for conserving the great Southern tradition of slavery... and expanding the Missou Compromise line all the way to the Pacific.

1962 seems to be the breach, with the Great Society. Seriously Reagan lays it all out in his convention speech to Goldwater.

The Great Society, you mean the term that was applied to President Johnson's speech made on May 22, 1964?

Radicals are like extra liberals. Harder left then liberals.

Let us ask che if he believes that?

Classic liberals are not on the left. Ron Paul, after all, is a Republican. Bob Barr, running for Libertarian chief, was a big guy in the Republican Party.

That's not what I said I said socialists tend to be materialists, which is contrary to Christianity.

So now its "tend to be". As stated before, the original socialists were Christians. Not all socialists are Marxist, not even close. Thomas More's "Utopia" is said to be a huge influence on socialists.

[Lefty Scaevola]

Originally posted by Kidicious
while the unproductive people eat ****?

Given you as an example, I would say 'Grade D, but edible ****" would be appropriate.

[Bugs ****ing Bunny]

Originally posted by Ben Kenobi


I don't know many socialists today who would affirm a spiritual world.

We are not responsible for your lack of wordly experience. Go to a Quaker meeting house or a Methodist chapel and you'll meet loads.

[Bugs ****ing Bunny]

Originally posted by Ben Kenobi


Wilberforce was a Liberal?

He was a Tory. Where were all the liberals and why weren't they calling for the abolition of slavery?

Oh dear.

Ben? Go and actually read about it, OK?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/William_Wilberforce

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charles_James_Fox

You're making a fool of yourself.

[aneeshm]

Originally posted by Arrian


You're the Indian equivalent of a college Republican. So... yeah.

-Arrian

What is a college Republican?

[MOBIUS]

Originally posted by C0ckney

this simply isn't true. the BNP tends to do well in working class areas which have experienced high levels of immigration. these areas tend to be labour and it is primarily at their expense that the BNP profits.

when you make an assertion based on certain facts, it's a good idea to check that those facts actually hold true…

OK, let's look at the elections in Barking and Dagenham where the BNP won 12 councillors and became the 2nd largest party in the borough then - i.e., their most successful campaign so far...

http://www.barking-dagenham.gov.uk/9-democracy/elections/elections-menu.cfm

The BNP contested wards where the Tories were weak or non-existent, at no point did they go head to head against strong Tory opposition...

In the seats that they won, they either did so against zero Tory opposition (in effect they were the Tory alternative!), or in 3 seat wards they fielded two candidates to the Tories' one - in effect allowing the voter to vote for both the BNP candidates AND the Tory!

Also, in EVERY ward the BNP contested, the Labour vote did not fall but actually ROSE!

So the only person round here that hasn't checked if the facts held true or not, is you sir, not me...

But hell, let's just forget about people like Enoch Powell, a Tory Cabinet Minister no less and racist as ****, and his Rivers of Blood speech. Not a BNP member, but certainly one whom people like Nick Griffin looked to for inspiration...

Or Edgar Griffin, a Tory member for over 50 years until belatedly kicked out from the party in 2001 when he was a Vice-President member of Iain Duncan Smith's campaign team - his ****ing surname should have given away the fact that he is the father of Nick Griffin, the leader of the BNP!

I suppose the reason that you've a bee in your bonnet about this is that you yourself are a fully paid up member of the Tories and secretly agree with everything the BNP say - now THAT is not based on fact, merely a well-placed intuition...

actually, zevico is dead right and you are talking rubbish.

When you make an assertion based on certain facts, it's a good idea to check that those facts actually hold true…