Macedonia

[VetLegion]

Whenever the Greeks are chided for their "Macedonia is our precious" nonsense, they respond with some analogy along the lines of "imagine if {your neighbouring country} decided to call itself {name of one of your country's regions}".

They get blank stares. The rest of the world just doesn't get it.

From the Economist printed edition:

Sharing a name

SIR – In order to help us “understand Greek sensitivities” over the use of the name Macedonia by Greece's northern neighbour, Dimitris Pantelidis asks how the citizens of Newcastle would react if counties in southern Scotland declared themselves the independent country of Northumbria (Letters, April 19th). As placidly, I suspect, as the inhabitants of the south-eastern Belgian province of Luxembourg react to the existence of the Grand Duchy of that name right next door.

Leofranc Holford-Strevens
Oxford

SIR – Mr Pantelidis need not have contrived such a far-fetched hypothesis about naming nations. Consider the French region of Brittany. Under the pretence of occupying so-called holiday homes, thousands of citizens of la Grande Bretagne are already in place as a fifth column waiting for the signal to rise up and secure Brittany's true destiny.

Michael Metcalf
New York

[Heraclitus]

Re: Macedonia

Originally posted by VetLegion
Whenever the Greeks are chided for their "Macedonia is our precious" nonsense, they respond with some analogy along the lines of "imagine if {your neighbouring country} decided to call itself {name of one of your country's regions}".

QFT

I really don't get why they make such a big dela of it especially since the Macedonians have as much claim to the name as they do.

[Riesstiu IV]

All Balkans nations and Turkey should form a commonwealth and call themselves the "Byzantine Union."

[germanos]

quote:
SIR – In order to help us “understand Greek sensitivities” over the use of the name Macedonia by Greece's northern neighbour, Dimitris Pantelidis asks how the citizens of Newcastle would react if counties in southern Scotland declared themselves the independent country of Northumbria (Letters, April 19th). As placidly, I suspect, as the inhabitants of the south-eastern Belgian province of Luxembourg react to the existence of the Grand Duchy of that name right next door.

Leofranc Holford-Strevens
Oxford

The bastards even stole our flag





So what did the Belgians, Dutch and Luxemburgers do? Found the BeNeLux, which such a good idea that the Germans, French and Italians followed suit.

The stupid Greeks should put their petty pride aside.

[MarkG]

yawn

[Ben Kenobi]

Obviously the Greeks should rename "Macedonia" to Thrace and Thessaly.

[Will9]

Re: Re: Macedonia

Originally posted by Heraclitus

I really don't get why they make such a big dela of it especially since the Macedonians have as much claim to the name as they do.

The ancient Kingdom of Macedonia had very little land in what is now FYROM. When the Romans conquered the region, the province of Macedonia's borders were further north south and west. About half of modern FYROM was included Roman province. The Byzantine province was further east and excluded most of the land in all other definitions of Macedonia. Under the Ottomans, Macedonia was not any official district, but was roughly defined as the region between Thessaly and Serbia which includes modern FYROM. The borders are basically the southern part of what Serbia claimed after the 2nd Balken War. So the Slavic Macedonians claim to the name is the name being used to describe the region for 500 years. The Greek claim to the name is a heritage that goes back nearly 3000 years. Normaly there shouldn't be too much of problem, but the problem comes when Slavic Macedonians start claiming that Greek heritage.

[chequita guevara]

What about Colombia and British Columbia? Or Russia and White Russia?

[chequita guevara]

ZOMFG! Congo and Congo! And Korea and Korea and China and China!

[Heraclitus]

Re: Re: Re: Macedonia

Originally posted by Will


The ancient Kingdom of Macedonia had very little land in what is now FYROM. When the Romans conquered the region, the province of Macedonia's borders were further north south and west. About half of modern FYROM was included Roman province. The Byzantine province was further east and excluded most of the land in all other definitions of Macedonia. Under the Ottomans, Macedonia was not any official district, but was roughly defined as the region between Thessaly and Serbia which includes modern FYROM. The borders are basically the southern part of what Serbia claimed after the 2nd Balken War. So the Slavic Macedonians claim to the name is the name being used to describe the region for 500 years. The Greek claim to the name is a heritage that goes back nearly 3000 years. Normaly there shouldn't be too much of problem, but the problem comes when Slavic Macedonians start claiming that Greek heritage.

500 year vs 3000 years is not really a contest

both have been there so long they deserve to call it whatever they bloody like, but they don't have the right to tell the other what not to use.

[MarkG]

Re: Re: Re: Macedonia

Originally posted by Will
Normaly there shouldn't be too much of problem, but the problem comes when Slavic Macedonians start claiming that Greek heritage.

Not only that. Skopjans claim that there are "enslaved brothers" in Greece and Bulgaria waiting to be liberated (something that doesnt happen in the "luxembourg" or "britany" examples mentioned above). These claims were even in their constitution at some point.

And no, Greece is not afraid a war with FYROM. But you can be a good neighbor or a (NATO) ally with someone who claims you're stealing and enslaving him...

[VetLegion]

Macedonia: pop 2 million, a third of whom are Albanians
Greece: pop 10 million, only a million of whom are Albanians

You simply can't describe Macedonia as a threat to Greece.

And the heritage argument is bollocks.

[MarkG]

Originally posted by VetLegion
You simply can't describe Macedonia as a threat to Greece.

i've already responded to this before you even posted about it

And the heritage argument is bollocks.

that surely is a statement based on hmmmm... something. i think...

[VetLegion]

It's the same as copyright. Ideas can't be stolen. Narratives can't be stolen. They can be copied but not stolen. It's a victimless crime.

[MarkG]

still, a crime.