Stabbing for GTA4

[Wiglaf]

It just seems like you play shooting games and this game involves shooting on a big scale so why arent you buying it on a big scale?

[Kuciwalker]

Originally posted by Wiglaf
I am curious why not?

I never enjoyed the others very much. The most enjoyment I got was from entering a cheat code to get the tank, then rampaging over the city. Not worth $60, let alone time that could be devoted to worthier games.

[Wezil]

Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui


So you are the one to decide cultural value for the rest of the world? My, my, will the arrogance never cease?

*sigh*

I expressed an opinion that it was "cultural excrement". How that makes me "decide cultural value for the rest of the world" I have no idea.

Thus far your refutation of my opinion has consisted of two branches to the same argument (both off point):

1) It is popular - Lot's of crap is popular. So what?
2) The game critics like it - Again, so what? I never claimed it was technically deficient or not fun to play. I said it was cultural excrement.

Now, since you value the opinions of critics so much (so long as it isn't an OT critic obviously) why don't we discuss the actual point instead of your straw man. What do social commentators say about the game? Are they raving for it as well?

[Wezil]

Originally posted by Kuciwalker
So to summarize, Wezil has no idea what he's talking about, no idea about the game industry beyond his little niche, yet thinks he is the sole arbiter of which games are "cultural excrement".

*sigh*

I'm glad to hear my thoughts carry so much sway here as to allow me to be a "sole arbiter" to decide things for "the world".

Incredible.


Again, not what I said nor addresses the point but nice character assassination.

[Wezil]

Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui


(though on the second part, he may want to weasel out[wezil out?] by saying he wasn't refering to the line waiting except tangentially... he just wanted to dig into GTA)

It's not "weaseling out" of anything but you correct, I was clearly not talking about waiting in line for the game or placing any value on this as any indication of the games worth one way or the other.

My comment was about the actual game and was posted in this thread as we are unlikely to have a second thread on the subject.

[Ninot]

Wezil, You're not my mommy!!!

[Wezil]

No Ninot, I am not.

Let me make clear - I am not in favour of banning GTA or anything of the sort. There are actually very few things in this world I would ban, and a video game wouldn't be one of them.

Btw, If you knew me in RL, you would find the idea that I am some sort of "cultural elitist" absolutely hilarious.

[Ninot]

Can you be my daddy?

[Wezil]

Speak to Asher.

[Imran Siddiqui]

The game critics like it - Again, so what? I never claimed it was technically deficient or not fun to play. I said it was cultural excrement.

If the ones who are declared to be experts in deciding what is good and bad (and to be honest all critics are seen as such), decide one a work to be among the highest of the high, then who are you to claim cultural excrement?

Who decides whether movies are culturally worthy? Who decides if they live on as art?

Unless you think video games cannot, under any circumstances, aspire to art?

What do social commentators say about the game? Are they raving for it as well?

Do we listen to social commentators for deciding what works elevate themselves in a medium?

I expressed an opinion that it was "cultural excrement". How that makes me "decide cultural value for the rest of the world" I have no idea.

Because apparently everyone else (or at least the vast majority) is wrong.

[Wezil]

Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui
If the ones who are declared to be experts in deciding what is good and bad (and to be honest all critics are seen as such), decide one a work to be among the highest of the high, then who are you to claim cultural excrement?

Come on Imran you are not this stupid. The critics you refer to are GAME CRITICS. They are not considering the cultural worth of anything. They will tell you if it works properly and if they enjoy playing it.

Who decides whether movies are culturally worthy? Who decides if they live on as art?

Unless you think video games cannot, under any circumstances, aspire to art?

Nobody "decides" but many express opinions on it.

Do we listen to social commentators for deciding what works elevate themselves in a medium?

No, but if you are trying to argue against my comment then I think their opinions and thoughts on the subject are essential. What do they say?

Because apparently everyone else (or at least the vast majority) is wrong.

I seriously doubt the "vast majority" have given it an iota of thought.

[Imran Siddiqui]

Come on Imran you are not this stupid. The critics you refer to are GAME CRITICS. They are not considering the cultural worth of anything. They will tell you if it works properly and if they enjoy playing it.

Who decides cultural worth in the field of games? Do not movie critics decide cultural worth in the field of movies? Why do people follow the Academy Awards so much? Or the AFI list of best movies? Do movie critics not tell you if they enjoy seeing a movie?

Because the experts have thought it through and decided upon it.

Nobody "decides" but many express opinions on it.

And is not what is culture or art the opinion of the society writ large?

if you are trying to argue against my comment then I think their opinions and thoughts on the subject are essential.

I disagree entirely. Social commentators think "A Clockwork Orange" is cultural filth. They think similarly of "The Godfather". Because they are trapped in their small minded morality.

I seriously doubt the "vast majority" have given it an iota of thought.

Read the reviews. They are all out there.

[Wezil]

Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui

Who decides cultural worth in the field of games? Do not movie critics decide cultural worth in the field of movies? Why do people follow the Academy Awards so much? Or the AFI list of best movies? Do movie critics not tell you if they enjoy seeing a movie?

I expect people that deal with cultural issues to be the people to comment on it (I won't play your "decide" game). I'd look to the social scientists. What sort of background do game reviewers generally have?

And is not what is culture or art the opinion of the society writ large?

If it is society writ large then why do you insist on relying on the opinion of the narrow slice called game reviewers?

I disagree entirely. Social commentators think "A Clockwork Orange" is cultural filth. They think similarly of "The Godfather". Because they are trapped in their small minded morality.

Ah. Realising you may have a problem when the real experts in the field are consulted you retreat. Now it is clear why you put forth your straw man.

Read the reviews. They are all out there.

So "vast majority" is again your thin slice of game reviewers.

This discussion is useless so long as you continue to avoid my actual comment and continue to attack me on your straw man. Address my point please.

[Asher]

Boring.

GTA4 rules, suck it down!

[Wezil]

This is the argument Imran.

A best-selling video game series, Grand Theft Auto, is releasing a new version Tuesday amid a firestorm of concern about the impact of violent games on children.

The Chicago Transit Authority is pulling ads for the game off its buses. The Parents Television Council is calling on retailers to keep it away from children. The PTA has a campaign to explain ratings.

More than a dozen bids in five states and four in Congress would limit sales of some games to children. Since 2005, nine states have passed laws to restrict game sales but none survived court challenges.

"These games are patently offensive and violent," says Minnesota Solicitor General Alan Gilbert, who is appealing a court ruling that found no "incontrovertible" proof the games trigger violence in kids.

Rockstar Games, the series maker, declined to comment. The video game industry has responded to critics by agreeing to restrict the advertising and sale of M-rated games. Most major retailers say they won't sell them to anyone under 17. Yet random checks by the Federal Trade Commission found that 42% of retailers did.

A new book, Grand Theft Childhood, says games, even some violent ones, may have social benefits.

"Video games are now a social tool for boys," who use them to interact and build friendships, says co-author Lawrence Kutner, who is on the Harvard medical school faculty. The games also teach kids to solve problems, the book says.

A study for the book found Grand Theft Auto, rated "M" for "mature," was the most popular game among boys and second among girls, whose favorite was The Sims (rated "T" for "teen").

The Grand Theft Auto series, which has sold 30 million games since its launch in 1997, includes the all-time PlayStation best seller San Andreas. In the new version, an immigrant is dragged into a bloody criminal underworld. The rating warns of "intense violence" and "strong sexual content."

Despite benefits, the study found that kids who played M-rated games were more likely to get into fights, damage property, steal from a store and receive poor grades.

Studies show that "a heavy diet of these games puts kids at risk for aggression" says David Walsh, president of the National Institute on Media and the Family.

http://abcnews.go.com/Technology/Story?id=4725498&page=2

Now tell me again how your damn game critics are experts in this subject?