In Soviet Russia, friends leave you

[Heraclitus]

Who keeps American dominance in Eastern Europe in check?

[Kuciwalker]

We want to prevent that?

[Heraclitus]

You don't we blue & gold guys do.

[Kuciwalker]

Some of you.

A lot of you seem perfectly happy to fall under the American umbrella. It's a lot more comfortable there than under the Russian one.

[Geronimo]

Originally posted by Kuciwalker


For one, there's preventing the resurgence of Russian dominance in Eastern Europe

There wouldn't be dominance by any single given country with such a broad treaty organization handling security. Russia qualifies to be a part of NATO as much as the US does.

[Kuciwalker]

There wouldn't be dominance by any single given country with such a broad treaty organization handling security.

If everyone is a member, no one might as well be a member.

An alliance is defined as much by who isn't in it as who is.

[Wezil]

Originally posted by Geronimo


There wouldn't be dominance by any single given country with such a broad treaty organization handling security. Russia qualifies to be a part of NATO as much as the US does.

Are you saying NATO isn't dominated by a certain country now?

[Kuciwalker]

I'm pretty sure he was acknowledging the opposite.

[Dinner]

I would like to see both the Ukraine and Georgia in NATO though both need to solve their territorial disputes before joining. Other wise there is a chance the territorial disputes could cause problems in the future. Also Russia needs to stop trying to **** things up just for the sake of ****ing things up.

[Dinner]

Originally posted by onodera

But don't you think that allying with Russia would be the best way to avoid a conflict with it?

I would like to see a stable and democratic Russia as a full member of NATO some day but right now the Russian government is acting very autocratically; perhapses even dictatorially. That just doesn't fit in with the preamble of the NATO treaty which identifies common democratic principles of government being a corner stone of the alliance.

One day, hopefully, Russia will learn that the west isn't their enemy and that for one to be successful the other has to lose something. We can all gain together by working together. At the end of the day Russia really is more European in its history then Asian so with luck we'll all agree to work for peace and stability.

[Geronimo]

Originally posted by Kuciwalker

There wouldn't be dominance by any single given country with such a broad treaty organization handling security.

If everyone is a member, no one might as well be a member.

An alliance is defined as much by who isn't in it as who is.

Russia was obviously very enthusiastic about the ideals that nominally unite the NATO countries immediately after throwing the communists out of power. NATO countries should be democracies and Russias democracy was as real as any former communist bloc country.

Basically NATO should have been a way for the major democracies to have a mechanism of common defense. Keeping Russia at arms length goes a long way towards explaining the differences between it's political development and that of the other eastern bloc countries that were admitted to NATO. Democracies that feel threatened by hostile isolation feel a lot of pressure to sacrifice democracy (and anything else) for security.

[Heraclitus]

Geronimo knows a thing or two about the situation.

[VetLegion]

Originally posted by Geronimo


Russia was obviously very enthusiastic about the ideals that nominally unite the NATO countries immediately after throwing the communists out of power. NATO countries should be democracies and Russias democracy was as real as any former communist bloc country.

Basically NATO should have been a way for the major democracies to have a mechanism of common defense. Keeping Russia at arms length goes a long way towards explaining the differences between it's political development and that of the other eastern bloc countries that were admitted to NATO. Democracies that feel threatened by hostile isolation feel a lot of pressure to sacrifice democracy (and anything else) for security.

Nonsense. NATO is no excuse for Russia's situation.

[Ecthy]

Originally posted by Kuciwalker
A lot of you seem perfectly happy to fall under the American umbrella. It's a lot more comfortable there than under the Russian one.

You know, it's not the Russian umbrella that's the alternative to the American one...

[Kuciwalker]