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  • In Soviet Russia, friends leave you

    BBC, News, BBC News, news online, world, uk, international, foreign, british, online, service


    Nato denies Georgia and Ukraine

    Nato has confirmed it will not yet offer membership to Georgia or Ukraine after the 26-member alliance was split amid strong objections from Russia.

    Moscow said Nato's promise at a summit in Romania that the nations would join one day was a "huge strategic mistake".

    Macedonia vowed to leave the summit after it was denied entry. Albania and Croatia were given the green light.

    Nato members were set to endorse US plans for anti-missile defences in Europe, which Russia has opposed.

    US and Czech officials have agreed to base a missile defence radar on Czech soil.

    However, the US had also called for Georgia, Ukraine and Macedonia to be allowed to join, so the decision to postpone their membership process was a setback for President George W Bush, our correspondent adds.

    A night of diplomatic wrangling over the new members had poisoned the summit's atmosphere, he says.

    'Not happy'

    The alliance decided not to offer Ukraine and Georgia a membership action plan - a gateway to membership - but agreed on Thursday to review this in December.

    Nato Secretary General Jaap de Hoop Scheffer told a news conference that Georgia and Ukraine would become members eventually.

    Germany and France had been opposed to putting the two nations on the path to membership, amid concerns voiced by Russia over Nato's eastward expansion.

    "Georgia's and Ukraine's membership in the alliance is a huge strategic mistake which would have most serious consequences for pan-European security," Interfax news agency quoted Russia's Deputy Foreign Minister Alexander Grushko as saying on the sidelines of the summit.

    Georgian diplomats said they were "not happy" with the delay but welcomed the promise of eventual membership.

    Macedonian officials said their rejection was a "huge disappointment" that would undermine stability in the Balkans, and said they would leave the three-day summit early.

    Macedonia's membership was strongly opposed by Greece, which has a northern province that is also called Macedonia.

    It argued that the former Yugoslav republic's insistence on being known as Macedonia implied a territorial claim.

    Separately, President Nicolas Sarkozy indicated France would return next year to the Nato military command it left in 1966 in protest at the dominance of US commanders.

    He also said a battalion of extra French troops would be deployed to Afghanistan, easing fears of a crisis within the Western coalition there.

    The US says the French move, expected to involve up to 1,000 extra soldiers, will free up some of its troops to move to southern Afghanistan, where Canada had demanded Nato reinforcements be sent.

    Canada's parliament voted last month to extend its military mission in volatile southern Afghanistan to 2011 - but only if its allies sent reinforcements.


    Does it piss Russia off that all of their comrades are jumping ship?

    Their best hockey players live in Canada or the USA, their best journalists are assassinated, and their former allies are defecting to NATO...ouch.
    "The issue is there are still many people out there that use religion as a crutch for bigotry and hate. Like Ben."
    Ben Kenobi: "That means I'm doing something right. "

  • #2
    Don't worry Russia, once you get around to modernizing your military we will invite you too

    They feel left out
    "The DPRK is still in a state of war with the U.S. It's called a black out." - Che explaining why orbital nightime pictures of NK show few lights. Seriously.

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    • #3
      They still got Serbs .

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      • #4
        "Their former allies are defecting..."

        Georgia was never a voluntary ally of Russia. Nowadays their breakaway parts are supported by Russia so it's only natural they'd seek support from the outside.

        Ukraine is split in half between a pro-Russia and a pro-Western part.

        Why an expansion of Nato to the east would be so sensible ATM is beyond me. Must seem like real strong to some Americans, but if you live in Europe, next to Russia, it's hard to see much point in showing muscle to some easily irritable neighbour of yours.

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        • #5
          Who cares? NATO doesn't even function as an effective alliance anymore.

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          • #6
            Well that may be your opinion, but it doesn't answer the question.

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            • #7
              "... they came for the communists, and I did not speak out because I was not a communist... "

              I drank beer. I like beer. I still like beer. ... Do you like beer Senator?
              - Justice Brett Kavanaugh

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              • #8
                Originally posted by Ecthy
                Well that may be your opinion, but it doesn't answer the question.
                It is more than opinion. Evidence can be pointed to.

                I agree with your assessment however. It would appear we are doing what we can to irritate an "irritable neighbor". I am some what comforted by Riesstiu's observation however. The requirement to actually fight appears to be optional in the new NATO.
                "I have never killed a man, but I have read many obituaries with great pleasure." - Clarence Darrow
                "I didn't attend the funeral, but I sent a nice letter saying I approved of it." - Mark Twain

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                • #9
                  The Nato does have a good purpose. In Afghanistan it is protecting poppy cultivation, in Kosovo the import of the drugs into Europe. I am sure, the Ukraine would be a good addition, too. I hear they have good farmland, they could grow weed in masses and make it cheap for all of us.

                  Nato

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                  • #10
                    Exactly how far can an alliance stretch before it breaks?
                    Which side are we on? We're on the side of the demons, Chief. We are evil men in the gardens of paradise, sent by the forces of death to spread devastation and destruction wherever we go. I'm surprised you didn't know that. --Saul Tigh

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                    • #11
                      I don't think it will "break" exactly. I just see it's "collective security" provisions becoming a thing of the past.
                      "I have never killed a man, but I have read many obituaries with great pleasure." - Clarence Darrow
                      "I didn't attend the funeral, but I sent a nice letter saying I approved of it." - Mark Twain

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                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Ecthy
                        Why an expansion of Nato to the east would be so sensible ATM is beyond me. Must seem like real strong to some Americans, but if you live in Europe, next to Russia, it's hard to see much point in showing muscle to some easily irritable neighbour of yours.
                        Better to irritate them now if it means that we'll be in a better strategic position later if they are more than just "irritable".

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                        • #13
                          It seems a trade off between better security position and probability of conflict. The more of these former nations and countries "in their backyard" that we bring in the greater the liklihood of a conflict arising (particularly over something stupid).

                          It is this reason I see the collective security provisions weakening as this large alliance of countries has to decide if they will collectively fight a battle that seemed to be preventable.
                          "I have never killed a man, but I have read many obituaries with great pleasure." - Clarence Darrow
                          "I didn't attend the funeral, but I sent a nice letter saying I approved of it." - Mark Twain

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                          • #14
                            Why an expansion of Nato to the east would be so sensible ATM is beyond me. Must seem like real strong to some Americans, but if you live in Europe, next to Russia, it's hard to see much point in showing muscle to some easily irritable neighbour of yours.
                            Maybe it's better to try to integrate countries like these into the West now so that Russia has a smaller chance of getting them back in case it gets stronger in the future (what Kuci said)

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                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Ecthy
                              Why an expansion of Nato to the east would be so sensible ATM is beyond me. Must seem like real strong to some Americans, but if you live in Europe, next to Russia, it's hard to see much point in showing muscle to some easily irritable neighbour of yours.
                              The rationale could be: better do it now while Russia is still relativley weak than later on when it builds up and can threaten to do something about it.

                              Though I think that in the long run Russia will be NATO ally against the Chinese and other threats from the south.

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