USAians: What are you doing on this loooong MLK weekend?

[Geronimo]

Originally posted by DinoDoc
Can we just split the difference and save us all the tedious whining from both sides and call the day Plagiarism Appreciation Day?

excellent suggestion (for Lee-Jackson day that is, wth should we change the name of MLK day? )

[DinoDoc]

Originally posted by Geronimo
excellent suggestion (for Lee-Jackson day that is, wth should we change the name of MLK day? )

Well I'm unaware of plagiarism on the part of Lee or Jackson. I just thought if we removed the name from the day, people might stop with the tedious debate.

[Geronimo]

Originally posted by DinoDoc
Well I'm unaware of plagiarism on the part of Lee or Jackson. I just thought if we removed the name from the day, people might stop with the tedious debate.

It sounds rather like you're advocating opening a new tedious debate about MLK day to parallel our tedious debate about Lee-Jackson day.

[DinoDoc]

Well my tedious debate would be in keeping with the thread topic.

[Geronimo]

Originally posted by DinoDoc
Well my tedious debate would be in keeping with the thread topic.

they both are since it's the same weekend.

[MrFun]

Good god . . . .

BK really should do at LEAST half the research and writing I have done on historical topics relating to slavery, Civil War, and Reconstruction and then he would begin to make at least half sense.


First off, there is a difference between expressing one's opinion that celebration of Confederacy and the mythical "Lost Cause" are repugntant and detrimental to healing of race relations between blacks and whites in the South, from that of wanting to expunge from all history books about discussing the REAL legacy of the Confederacy and the centrality of the issue of slavery that led to the Civil War in United States.

I believe that the continued celebration by white Southerners of the "Lost Cause" crap are doing harm to any effort in healing race relations between blacks and whites in the South. How did you draw to the conclusion that this means I want to expunge from all history books about the history of the Civil War and the Confederacy and the people involved with secession and Confederacy?

And I see that Molly posted a nice qoute from Ida B. Wells and her discussion about how the New South after Reconstruction enacted a new reign of terror over blacks. So yes, BK we do need to look at everything, the good, the bad, and the ugly. Idiots who continue waving the Confederate flag and who continue to convince themselves that it means no offense to black people are ignoring the history of their region and their own state. Ignoring the real impact of slavery, and then after Reconstruction, ignoring the social sanctioning of lynching of blacks.

Below is a picture of Jesse Washington, a mentally-disabled 17 year old black man who was lynched in Waco, Texas in 1915 upon being accused of murdering a white woman; he was put through a mockery of kangaroo-court trial and denied the due process of law. He was physically dragged on the ground, from the prison to the town square in Waco, beatened with clubs, and bricks. Then, while still alive, he was raised and lowered by a skillet-hot chain at a tree, into a large fire and roasted to death. These are the things in the South's history that Confederate flag wavers and celebrants are either wholly ignorant of, or are willing to deny the facts of history.

[MrFun]

Originally posted by Ramo
Symbolism. The point is that the people who ran the South in the '50's and early '60's associated the Confederate battle flag with keeping the darkies down.

Exactly. I really would like Confederate flag wavers to actually ASK black Southerners what they think of that dumb flag.

[DinoDoc]

Hey MrFun! How do you feel about doctorates being given out on the basis of plagiarized research given how hard you worked to get your advanced degree?

[MrFun]

Originally posted by DinoDoc
Hey MrFun! How do you feel about doctorates being given out on the basis of plagiarized research given how hard you worked to get your advanced degree?

Uh, what does this have to do with the price of tea in China?


EDIT: I have a Masters; no PhD.

[DinoDoc]

Originally posted by MrFun
Uh, what does this have to do with the price of tea in China?

Bored and trying to stir conversation about stuff at leats marginally interesting to me. Plus I thought you being the history person here would know if it already.

FYI: This is what the post was refering to

[chequita guevara]

You've tried it four times, DD, no one's biting.

[DinoDoc]

I thought Fun would though. Guess I'm done.

[chequita guevara]

Originally posted by Ben Kenobi
And why has the battle flag of the confederacy (which BTW wasn't even created until the war started) a symbol of slavery?

Actually, it's the Confederate Naval Jack. The Battle Flag was square. It was created during the war. It was adopted by the organization of the confederate veterans in the 1890s. This occurred at the same time as Jim Crow laws and lynch law were sweeping across the South and when the Daughters of the Confederacy began their massive white wash campaign (which you have swallowed, hook, line, and sinker), even erecting statues and monuments to the Confederacy in areas that were hotbeds of union sympathy and support. With the rise of the 2nd Klan, the Confederate flag was adopted as the symbol of white supremacy overtly, and has been used as such since 1915.

We've argued this before. The south should be allowed to have their own culture, to celebrate what they believe in without folks from other states telling them what they can and can't do.

No, they have no right not to have other folks telling them what to do. They may or may not chose to listen, but if they chose to engage in behavior or language that is odious to the rest of America, they have absolutely no right to expect the rest of us to tell them off.

And you, you disgust me. You keep talking about how much you love America and want to be an American, but you reject American and embrace the single largest act of treason against America in our history.

[MrFun]

Originally posted by DinoDoc
Bored and trying to stir conversation about stuff at leats marginally interesting to me. Plus I thought you being the history person here would know if it already.

FYI: This is what the post was refering to

The fact that King may have plagarized doing his paper and the fact that he also may have cheated on his wife does not seriously diminish the image that I have of him . . . .

a profoundly important civil right activist leader at the right place, and at the right time. This does not mean that I find his plagarism acceptable in the slightest.


You're throwing a red herring out for distraction from the issue of why we still have race relations problems in United States. It has something to do with the continued bullsh*t celebration of the "Lost Cause."

[Ben Kenobi]

BK really should do at LEAST half the research and writing I have done on historical topics relating to slavery, Civil War, and Reconstruction and then he would begin to make at least half sense.

Mr. Fun.

I know you have spent considerable time researching the issue, but last time around MTG steamrolled you. I'm not arguing against your credentials. All I ask is that you take into account that I have a history degree also, and I have done a civil war paper on Gen McClellan.

First off, there is a difference between expressing one's opinion that celebration of Confederacy and the mythical "Lost Cause" are repugntant and detrimental to healing of race relations between blacks and whites in the South, from that of wanting to expunge from all history books about discussing the REAL legacy of the Confederacy and the centrality of the issue of slavery that led to the Civil War in United States.

Agreed. They lost and I don't think I've asked for anyone to expunge the legacy of the south both good and bad. I even said part of what makes Lee worthy of a day is the fact that he opposed this faction within the confederacy both during the war and after the war.

I believe that the continued celebration by white Southerners of the "Lost Cause" crap are doing harm to any effort in healing race relations between blacks and whites in the South. How did you draw to the conclusion that this means I want to expunge from all history books about the history of the Civil War and the Confederacy and the people involved with secession and Confederacy?

Because we have sparred earlier. You seem to make an argument that the flag of the confederacy is a celebration of the lost cause? You are the only one I know that has asserted that hypothesis.

And I see that Molly posted a nice qoute from Ida B. Wells and her discussion about how the New South after Reconstruction enacted a new reign of terror over blacks. So yes, BK we do need to look at everything, the good, the bad, and the ugly. Idiots who continue waving the Confederate flag and who continue to convince themselves that it means no offense to black people are ignoring the history of their region and their own state. Ignoring the real impact of slavery, and then after Reconstruction, ignoring the social sanctioning of lynching of blacks.

True, that, but let me ask you this. Why would you support the removal of the flag of the confederacy from the states of the south. Yes, it's offensive to black people, but why? Slavery existed well before the flag did. It is a modern invention that associates the Confederate Battle Flag with slavery. It seems to me that people forget slavery existed long before the flag was there.

Shall I post a picture of the fellow who inspired Dr. King, Mr. Fun?