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Science fights against religion - the pope not wanted

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  • Science fights against religion - the pope not wanted



    Pope pulls out of visit to Rome university after outrage at his views on Galileo and science


    · Government divided on protest over 1990 speech
    · Row over letter signed by more than 60 teachers

    John Hooper in Rome
    Wednesday January 16, 2008
    The Guardian

    A student wears a mock mask of Pope Benedict XVI as he protests at La Sapienza University in Rome
    A student wears a mock mask of Pope Benedict XVI as he protests at La Sapienza university in Rome. Photograph: Gregorio Borgia/AP


    Pope Benedict XVI last night called off a visit to Rome's main university in the face of hostility from some of its academics and students, who accused him of despising science and defending the Inquisition's condemnation of Galileo.

    The controversy was unparalleled in a country where criticism of the Roman Catholic church is normally muted. The Pope had been due to speak tomorrow during ceremonies marking the start of the academic year at Rome's largest and oldest university, La Sapienza. But the Vatican said last night it had been "considered opportune to postpone" his visit.

    The announcement followed a break-in and sit-in at the rector's office yesterday by about 50 students and a furious row over a letter signed by more than 60 of La Sapienza's teachers, asking that the invitation to the Pope be rescinded.

    The signatories of the letter said Benedict's presence would be "incongruous". They cited a speech he made at La Sapienza in 1990, while he was still a cardinal, in which he quoted the judgment of an Austrian philosopher of science who wrote that the church's trial of Galileo was "reasonable and fair".

    The letter said: "These words offend and humiliate us." Among the signatories was the physicist Prof Luciano Maiani, who was recently appointed to head Italy's main scientific research body, the Consiglio nazionale delle ricerche.

    Maiani said he had later dropped his opposition to the visit after learning that the Pope would not be making the keynote address. But the daily La Stampa reported that a number of foreign scientists had since added their names to the initiative.

    One students' group declared an "anti-clerical week" to protest at the Pope's presence. Among numerous banners and placards put up around the campus, there was one that read: "Galileo recanted. We shall hold out against the papacy."

    The Pope is known for his deeply conservative outlook and the controversy is the latest in a string of rows since his election three years ago. He upset Muslims with another quotation in an academic lecture, on that occasion from a medieval Byzantine emperor.

    He has since been criticised by Latin Americans for his views on the colonisation of their continent and by Protestants for saying their denominations ought not to be considered as churches.

    The newspaper Il Giornale, which republished his 1990 speech, said the Pope had "expressed a different position" from that of the Austrian scholar Paul Feyerabend, "absolutely not adopting it as his own". The Vatican's own daily, L'Osservatore Romano, carried an article by the Jewish mathematician Giorgio Israel, in which he wrote that the Pope's address "could well be considered, by anyone who read it with a minimum of attention, as a defence of Galilean rationality against the scepticism and relativism of postmodern culture".

    Speaking before last night's announcement, Italy's deputy prime minister, Francesco Rutelli, said: "The attempt to silence [Benedict] in a place that is a forum for study, teaching and dialogue ... seems inconceivable." He noted that a pope had founded La Sapienza in 1303.

    However, the trade minister, Emma Bonino, said the Pope already "held the floor morning and night".

    Rightwing opposition MPs were outraged. One suggested La Sapienza, which means "wisdom" or "learning" ought now to be renamed La Ignoranza

    Backstory

    · Galileo Galilei was the Inquisition's most high profile victim. But by recanting his view that the earth moved around the sun, he managed to pay for his defiance of Catholic teaching, not with his life, but his freedom.

    · Born in Pisa in 1564, Galileo was a polymathic genius - a physicist, astronomer and mathematician who improved both the refracting telescope and compound microscope

    · After ridiculing the views of the then Pope Urban VIII in his Dialogue Concerning the Two Chief World Systems, Galileo was ordered to stand trial for heresy in 1633. The judgment found that his view of the solar system was "absurd, philosophically false, and formally heretical, because it is expressly contrary to Holy Scriptures".

    · He spent the rest of his life under house arrest on orders of the Inquisition and died in 1642. It was not until 1835 that his Dialogue was dropped from the Index of banned books. John Hooper
    Yeah, Galileo was a criminal and only got what he deserved .
    With or without religion, you would have good people doing good things and evil people doing evil things. But for good people to do evil things, that takes religion.

    Steven Weinberg

  • #2
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    • #3
      Galileo's crime wasn't in science but in politics. And protestant denominations aren't churches.
      “As a lifelong member of the Columbia Business School community, I adhere to the principles of truth, integrity, and respect. I will not lie, cheat, steal, or tolerate those who do.”
      "Capitalism ho!"

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      • #4
        The signatories of the letter said Benedict's presence would be "incongruous".
        incongruous . Great word.

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        • #5
          I remember when universities were open to all thought.

          Now, I guess you have your thoughts okayed before you get to speak.

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          • #6
            Originally posted by Zkribbler
            I remember when universities were open to all thought.

            Now, I guess you have your thoughts okayed before you get to speak.
            Are you saying that flat eartherners, ID's etc should be considered as prominent guest speakers as well ?
            With or without religion, you would have good people doing good things and evil people doing evil things. But for good people to do evil things, that takes religion.

            Steven Weinberg

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            • #7
              Ahmadinejad received a welcome response in America.
              "I have never killed a man, but I have read many obituaries with great pleasure." - Clarence Darrow
              "I didn't attend the funeral, but I sent a nice letter saying I approved of it." - Mark Twain

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              • #8
                Originally posted by BlackCat


                Are you saying that flat eartherners, ID's etc should be considered as prominent guest speakers as well ?
                Guest speakers, the word says it, especially when they're famous and influential.
                In Soviet Russia, Fake borises YOU.

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                • #9
                  Oh please, the Pope was a wuss. 50 students had a sit-in? And that's why the Pope decided not to speak? Come on... that's nothing.
                  “I give you a new commandment, that you love one another. Just as I have loved you, you also should love one another. By this everyone will know that you are my disciples, if you have love for one another.”
                  - John 13:34-35 (NRSV)

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                  • #10
                    You have to be careful with Feyerabend. He does have trollish tendencies
                    Let us be lazy in everything, except in loving and drinking, except in being lazy – Lessing

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                    • #11
                      Originally posted by DaShi
                      Galileo's crime wasn't in science but in politics. And protestant denominations aren't churches.
                      Yeah, I think of his life as Orson Welles's career, only more so since even William Randolph Hearst didn't have the power of a truly PO'ed medieval pope. Sad, and of course not a fair trial, but WTF did he expect? There was no first amendment, or European equivalent thereof, and he publicly insulted one of the most powerful men on earth.
                      1011 1100
                      Pyrebound--a free online serial fantasy novel

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                      • #12
                        I don't see what the fuss is about. The pope wants to visit a university and give a talk?

                        Why wouldn't you let him come and speak?

                        And yes, Blackcat, if the students invite flat earthers, they should be permitted to speak on campus. That's the whole point of letting students invite people to speak there.

                        Certainly things would be different if the university were to pay the speakers, but I hardly think the pope is asking for cash.
                        Scouse Git (2) La Fayette Adam Smith Solomwi and Loinburger will not be forgotten.
                        "Remember the night we broke the windows in this old house? This is what I wished for..."
                        2015 APOLYTON FANTASY FOOTBALL CHAMPION!

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                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Zkribbler
                          I remember when universities were open to all thought.
                          They're still open. The pope is welcome to to make a fine anti-science argument. And the rest of us are welcome to laugh at him for doing so.

                          Bh

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                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Ben Kenobi
                            I don't see what the fuss is about. The pope wants to visit a university and give a talk?

                            Why wouldn't you let him come and speak?
                            Well, they did. The Pope just didn't want to deal with the protesters. Maybe he just isn't used to that aspect of speaking at universities.
                            “I give you a new commandment, that you love one another. Just as I have loved you, you also should love one another. By this everyone will know that you are my disciples, if you have love for one another.”
                            - John 13:34-35 (NRSV)

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                            • #15
                              They're still open. The pope is welcome to to make a fine anti-science argument. And the rest of us are welcome to laugh at him for doing so.
                              What about his speech was to be anti-science?
                              "The DPRK is still in a state of war with the U.S. It's called a black out." - Che explaining why orbital nightime pictures of NK show few lights. Seriously.

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