CBS News Report on U.S. Military's "Don't Ask Don't Tell" policy

[Igloodude]

Originally posted by MrFun

You're a Settler and I'm a King.

Okay, what do you want to know? In no particular order, I'm a perverted, libertarian, gun-bearing, civ-playing, former ship-driving network geek.

[MrFun]

Originally posted by Igloodude


Okay, what do you want to know? In no particular order, I'm a perverted, libertarian, gun-bearing, civ-playing, former ship-driving network geek.

It'd be great if you can give me your first and last name, credit card number, and your Social Security number.

[Berzerker]

Should women and men in the military shower together? If the women are offended, tough luck?

I believe they have separate facilities for showering

[Wezil]

You didn't read the thread, did you?

[Imran Siddiqui]

So you have no frame of reference here, Donny. You're like a child who wanders into the middle of a movie and wants to know..
- Walter Sobchak in the Big Lebowski

[MrFun]

Originally posted by Berzerker


I believe they have separate facilities for showering

Could you PLEASE read the thread so you know what Wezil is talking about before making your argument?

[Dinner]

Patroklos is worried a gay man might laugh at his little willy. Or worse think it is cute.

Seriously, replace the word gay with negro and you have the exact same arguments (morale, unit cohesion, stress on the unit) that white supremacists made against allowing blacks into white units 60 years ago. It ignores history and it ignores the facts other militaries have experienced after they allowed homosexuals to serve their countries. The argument is rubbish.

[Berzerker]

I dont need to read the thread to have an opinion. Wezil seems to think that gays should not be allowed to serve their country because they make some guys feel icky...oh well, thats their problem...

[Kidlicious]

I'm assuming MrFun doesn't care about the right to stick needles in his eye, although that would be the kind of "fun" thing that he would do, but why does he care about his right to join the military, or at least join and proclaim his gayness?

[Patroklos]

Seriously, replace the word gay with negro and you have the exact same arguments (morale, unit cohesion, stress on the unit) that white supremacists made against allowing blacks into white units 60 years ago. It ignores history and it ignores the facts other militaries have experienced after they allowed homosexuals to serve their countries. The argument is rubbish.

Actually it only superficially resembles black integration, as has been extensively proven in this thread. Or maybe you should start a thread about this strawman where you will also be spanked (and which will be deleted)?

Nor has the experience of other countries disproven anyth I have claimed in this thread. In fact, everything I have claimed in this thread is nothing more than common sense.

If you wish to treat/think of homosexuals as something other than human beings, feel free Oerdin.

[Patroklos]

I dont need to read the thread to have an opinion. Wezil seems to think that gays should not be allowed to serve their country because they make some guys feel icky...oh well, thats their problem...

Thats fine Berz, but by extension women should not get seperate facilities because men make them feel icky. Their problem.

[Wezil]

Originally posted by Berzerker
I dont need to read the thread to have an opinion. Wezil seems to think that gays should not be allowed to serve their country because they make some guys feel icky...oh well, thats their problem...

And again you are wrong. Read the damn thread. I support gays in the military. Geez.

[Patroklos]

It should also be noted, besides the childish hackery of Oeridn, I have expressed two major concerns in this thread 1.) sexual harassment and 2.) consensual relationships not conducive to good order and discipline.

Oerdin would have you believe that the whole thread is about the first, while most of the thread is actually about the second. The first, expressed in this thread as a gay man "hitting on" or "staring at" a straight man in the shower, is very serious but not as serious the man vs. woman (as in probability of it happening, not the action itself).

With a man and a woman, assuming neither is wolf ugly (and after 4-5 months even that concern goes away) it is only reasonable to assume, showering together, some attraction is bound to take place. It is also only reasonable to assume that eventually one party will do or say something that will lead to #1 or #2.

In a gay man/straight man interaction, we don't really have to worry about #2 since both have different orientations. #1 could still happen, but I would assume that gay men are pretty adept at picking up on their own, why would they hit on someone they knew was straight and if they were unsure I doubt the appropriate place to find out is the shower (maybe over a cup of coffee in the galley/wardroom, nothing wrong there). It is still a possibility, and thus should be guarded against, but not all that likely in my opinion.

The real problem with gay integration is #2. By separating men and woman living quarters we limit the opportunities for #1 and #2 to occur. By separating gay men/woman from straight men/women we do absolutely nothing to prevent #1 and #2 from happening between gays themselves, and sexual harassment and inappropriate relationships between them should be just as much of a concern here as it is for straight people.

So that brings up the question, how do you establish the same barriers between gay men/women that we have between straight men and women? Assuming of course we don't just absolve barriers completely, which lets face it isn't going to happen anytime soon.

[Kidlicious]

Originally posted by Patroklos
It should also be noted, besides the childish hackery of Oeridn, I have expressed two major concerns in this thread

I'm sure no one takes you seriously anymore when you say that.

[Patroklos]

I'm sure no one takes you seriously anymore when you say that.

Feel free to tell me what other concerns I have expressed in this thread, or kindly STFU