CBS News Report on U.S. Military's "Don't Ask Don't Tell" policy

[Kidlicious]

Originally posted by Patroklos
Kid, why are you such a bigot?

I'll take that as a yes. I'm not a bigot though. It's just a fact that Southern Baptists are raised a certain way.

In any case, you probably wouldn't because you would go out of your way to not be there together when changing clothes and what not. In other words, you would defacto enforce a barrier regardless.

Of course I would go out of my way not to see my sister my in the nude, because....

I DO NOT WANT TO SEE MY SISTER NAKED.

[Patroklos]

I'll take that as a yes. I'm not a bigot though. It's just a fact that Southern Baptists are raised a certain way.

You could, and you would be wrong. Very, very wrong. Though there is a recent thread that would tell you.

I DO NOT WANT TO SEE MY SISTER NAKED.

Exactly. Ask yourself why that is, and you will now know why parents the world over go out of their way to seperate the living conditions of their sons and daughters from puberty on. Why just puberty on do you think?

[Kidlicious]

What the hell are you talking about?

Please read this again.

I DO NOT WANT TO SEE MY SISTER NAKED!

What further explaination do you need.

[Ming]

Last warning on the personal stuff... I'll just restricting the bunch of you.

[Patroklos]

I DO NOT WANT TO SEE MY SISTER NAKED!

I understand that, I have three younger sisters I don't want to see naked myself. But WHY don't you want to see her naked? And remember, if you were close enough in age, there was a time when it was totally acceptable to see your sister naked when you were younger. At what point and why did that change?

When you can honestly answer that question, apply it to the topic, and then contribute to the thread vise trying to rehash points we have already been over.

[Kidlicious]

Originally posted by Patroklos
But WHY don't you want to see her naked?

I suppose it's because she's my sister, not because I actually do want to see her naked because I'm compelled towards evil and I'm not filled with christian spirit.

[Patroklos]

I suppose it's because she's my sister, not because I actually do want to see her naked because I'm compelled towards evil and I'm not filled with christian spirit.

You just can't do it can you, admit why it is that you feel that way? Or rather why it is you were conditioned to feel that way. Why it was only taboo to do so when one or the other or both started approaching sexual maturity.

If you can't be honest thats fine Kid. But the fact is that the seperation of the sexes based on sexuality is real, and thus must be dealt with in regards to this topic.

[Kidlicious]

Un-****ing-believable.

[Patroklos]

Yeah it is. It is a very simple question. I find it amazing that in order to cling to an arguement that was already discredited earlier in the thread (several times actually) and again just now in spite of your waffling, you are willing to fain ignorance on this basic concept.

Do you have anything to add to the topic?

[Asher]

US Navy: Little Sister Friendly.

[Patroklos]

It's a double standard because the berthing arrangements are a double standard as well. "Fred and Joe get to sleep in the same compartment, but Bill and Amy don't!" "Yeah, but Bill and everyone else will report Fred and Joe if they screw around, but no one will report Bill and Amy."

Sorry, I missed this amougst Kids posts.

It isn't a double standard. There is a issue concerning the sexuality of men and women, addressing that is just prudent. There would be a double standard if we identify the same issue concerning gay male sexuality and didn't address it in the same way. Or we could just not address either, but you and I both know that would lead to disaster.

There is an issue of chain locker justice being employed rather than reporting them, though. Have to keep an eye out for that.

An EXTREME issue. Especially with engineers in my opinion. Manageable of course, but you can't be everywhere at once.

[Igloodude]

Originally posted by Patroklos


Sorry, I missed this amougst Kids posts.

It isn't a double standard. There is a issue concerning the sexuality of men and women, addressing that is just prudent. There would be a double standard if we identify the same issue concerning gay male sexuality and didn't address it in the same way. Or we could just not address either, but you and I both know that would lead to disaster.

"Don't ask, don't tell" already leaves this double standard in place, though. And frankly, given that both "Don't ask don't tell" and restrictions on women in combat roles have both passed legal muster, the DoD could simply choose to officially ignore the double standard. Which reminds me of the question, who precisely is objecting to the double standard, and why should we care if they object?

An EXTREME issue. Especially with engineers in my opinion. Manageable of course, but you can't be everywhere at once.

It was a bigger problem with the deck gang on the ships I'd been on, perhaps it is an issue that can be further dealt with at the CPO mess level?

[Patroklos]

"Don't ask, don't tell" already leaves this double standard in place, though. And frankly, given that both "Don't ask don't tell" and restrictions on women in combat roles have both passed legal muster, the DoD could simply choose to officially ignore the double standard.

That is true, though this would mean "Don't ask Don't Tell" would be gone. I don't see the resticting of woman from combat roles as a double standard becasue 1.) they are not restricted from all combat roles (pilots) and 2.) in most (maybe all?) cases it is just a recognition of a factual physical difference. If you can find enough woman who want to serve and can still pass the infantry courses at the male standards to justify their inclusion, I am all for it.

Which reminds me of the question, who precisely is objecting to the double standard, and why should we care if they object?

Since it hasn't happened, no one yet

It was a bigger problem with the deck gang on the ships I'd been on, perhaps it is an issue that can be further dealt with at the CPO mess level?

Those guys have problems to, but deck is usually a lot younger because of all the boot seamen, you don't get as many old salts that think they are above the regs. Deck guys give me more problems, Engineers give me serious problems.

Also, deck guys work out in the open while engineers work in the pit. I have found enough weird crap in the deep spaces as it is. Engineers really are an odd bunch.

As for CPO's I get the impression that the messes now are not as powerful as when you were in. There are good chiefs to be sure, but they seem to be slipping overall. That could just be my ship though, every mess is different.

[Ming]

Originally posted by Ming
Last warning on the personal stuff... I'll just restricting the bunch of you.

What part of this are some of you not understanding... If you want to get restricted, fine by me... But ENOUGH WITH THE PERSONAL CRAP.

[Berzerker]

Pat

Thats fine Berz, but by extension women should not get seperate facilities because men make them feel icky. Their problem.

Women are serving... This aint about showers, its about being allowed to serve. What accommodations, if any, are needed aint a concern to me. If women were told to shower with men and they dont like it, thats their problem too. Are we gonna have separate showers for straights and gays in school?