Fortress Europe (the reality)

[Pekka]

Yeah but look at the neighbouring countries. It's almost equal to fixing Africa, in fact it would only make sense to fix it while you're at it anyway .

But no, I mean it's not going to happen so... we're going to go on with this issue for a long time and I think the best we can do is to try to intervene the negative sides of this and weirdness that comes out of certain people and groups trying to evade the authorities in fear of being deported. new communities will rise, they will be poor so there will be even more small crime related stuff, maybe even few bigger crime problems as well, but at the same time, it becomes increasingly impossible to deport them.

So I figure the only thing we can realistically do is to try to fix some of the problems, these negative problems this thing creates within EU. So it's basically just reacting to problems... is this a good plan? No. This isn't even a plan. But like we've discussed, what can you realistically do? I don't see any single or combination of ways to remedy this.

[Imran Siddiqui]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Fortress Europe (the reality)

Originally posted by Heraclitus
There are a little fewer than 150,000 foreign immigrants and their descendants in Slovenia (which has a population of 2 million and one of the lowest birth rates in Europe). But I don’t mind them since they’re mostly Europeans, even most of the 40,000 Muslims are. Bosnian Islam is mostly ok, and compatible with democracy. There ere a few social issues since many of them are lower class… but it’s nothing as serious as what the French are dealing with.

Vetlegion’s comments aren’t funny in the way you thin they are.

They still are

[Alinestra Covelia]

You need to build a wall of some sort, large enough for you to keep people out.

This sounds like a tall order, but I suspect good old European ingenuity can solve it!

In the absence of any historical example, this is what I would propose:

Brick and mortar to a height of about 7 meters minimum, a width of 5 meters, with crenellations and watchtowers every few hundred meters. Gates would feature curved loadbearing arches with murder holes in the ceilings and thick doors. The watchtowers could be up to three stories high, with sloping eaved roofs to reduce the impact of rainwater runoff. If you build this wall over rolling terrain, make sure that the outside face is facing onto steeper lower elevations than the inner face.

To adequately measure the wall, you'd need a new unit of measurement. We could use the arbitrary term li, and set it so that it equals 1/10000 of the length of the entire wall.

Such a wall would require a name suitable to its greatness but nothing jumps to mind at the moment. I'd even guess that such a structure might even be visible from space, though this is pure conjecture.

This should prevent any wretched outsiders from coming in, bringing their wacky outlandish ideas and concepts!

[LordShiva]

Originally posted by Alinestra Covelia
In the absence of any historical example, this is what I would propose:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maginot_Line

[Heraclitus]

You should both go post in the other thread I started.
And try to be constructive in this one.

Anyway LS point is as sharp as always, lets start building, but we should tell the French to make it longer this time...

Anyway most of our border's at sea ...

[Alinestra Covelia]

Originally posted by LordShiva


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maginot_Line

That was a series of fortifications, as opposed to a solid building.

Despite its inherent coolness, I gather it didn't do too well in field tests. Something about them pesky Germans slipping through to cause all manner of mischief...

[LordShiva]

Originally posted by Heraclitus
You should go post in the other thread I started.

No!

[Pekka]

Wall isn't going to do it... EU has pretty long borders Plus, why would we prison ourselves inside? Makes no sense to me.

[LordShiva]

Originally posted by Alinestra Covelia
Despite its inherent coolness, I gather it didn't do too well in field tests.

Exactly

[BlackCat]

Originally posted by Alinestra Covelia
You need to build a wall of some sort, large enough for you to keep people out.

Nah, we can't use the yankystan solution since our boarders are at sea, but a dozen or two of ironclads could probably be a solution.

[Heraclitus]

Originally posted by BlackCat


Nah, we can't use the yankystan solution since our boarders are at sea, but a dozen or two of ironclads could probably be a solution.

Well, can't we use the glorius Scandinavian navy?

EDIT: BTW Britain and France have usable navies... and as I understand it the Norwegian one isn't anything to scoff about (they are in Schengen if I remember correctly)... I don’t know anything about the Danish one though.

[Wezil]

Originally posted by BlackCat


Nah, we can't use the yankystan solution since our boarders are at sea, but a dozen or two of ironclads could probably be a solution.

I'd recommend a couple dozen fighters to patrol the airspace as well.

[Heraclitus]

Originally posted by Pekka
Yeah but look at the neighbouring countries. It's almost equal to fixing Africa, in fact it would only make sense to fix it while you're at it anyway .

But no, I mean it's not going to happen so... we're going to go on with this issue for a long time and I think the best we can do is to try to intervene the negative sides of this and weirdness that comes out of certain people and groups trying to evade the authorities in fear of being deported. new communities will rise, they will be poor so there will be even more small crime related stuff, maybe even few bigger crime problems as well, but at the same time, it becomes increasingly impossible to deport them.

So I figure the only thing we can realistically do is to try to fix some of the problems, these negative problems this thing creates within EU. So it's basically just reacting to problems... is this a good plan? No. This isn't even a plan. But like we've discussed, what can you realistically do? I don't see any single or combination of ways to remedy this.

Stricter police control will do little good, so that’s only a little step and a uncomfortable one at that.

Perhaps we could finance the construction of factories in North Africa... we would have to lower some of our standards concerning human rights and labor rules, but these factories together with laxer immigration laws in those countries could take some pressure off us and they would experience some economic growth because of it... I suppose with proper legislation to encourage profitable investments in this direction could work in combination with direct political pressure on those countries to accept the China style slave- ehh I mean cheap labor.

This would be more realistic, this time truly neo-colonialist but It could work, we would have to lower our ethical standards to those employed by other powers. I could rational that in an illegal workshop in Europe they wouldn’t be much better off.

[BlackCat]

Originally posted by Heraclitus


Well, can't we use the glorius Scandinavian navy?

Ehrm, if Vetty is right, then last time you and your colonial masters had a fleet it got beaten by a couple of danish ships and you needed the brits to prevent a total beatup

[Heraclitus]

Originally posted by BlackCat


Ehrm, if Vetty is right, then last time you and your colonial masters had a fleet it got beaten by a couple of danish ships and you needed the brits to prevent a total beatup

Do you mean the Habsburgs? Wich war are you refering to? Europe has a history of those you know... Their navy was puny but had some great commanders.