Fortress Europe (the reality)

[Heraclitus]

BTW It may be hard to convince African countries to enter development plans proposed by some EU members (like France or Britain), especially because of our colonial past or the sheer economical advantages like the large German economy would have.
Even if such institutions would be directed by countries like Finland or Switzerland there would still be some resentment and accusations of neo-colonialism.

[OzzyKP]

Originally posted by Heraclitus
Anyway you guys do seem to complain a lot, a whole lot. Latinos aren't that culturally different from you, so ehh why the whining.

It’s not like they’re costing you jobs, you outsource those and who would want to be a maid anyway… :

But... they're brown! *shudder*

And they speak some form of weird gibberish that isn't American.

[Pekka]

EU is not a country

And we know humanitarian aid isn't just going to cut it. Throwing more money at it won't cut it either. So I guess what would be needed is all kinds of changes in rules and regulations as to help their businesses, but also all kinds of education and support, with the money of course.

Give a strong effort, a good care package with instructiosn and help given, hold the hands if you have to. After that? It really would be all we can do realistically so ... because if you would settle down some scores there, the bush wars and so forth, you'd have to take out some militias/tribes/clans and whatnot. I don't think EU is commited to that, plus it would have tons of problems as well outside "it's doable".

What I think is not waste anymore money, but give real resources, tools and help for some time. Sending some tents and water pumps doesn't do anything, and neither does giving money so most people can have some food at some point.

[BlackCat]

Originally posted by OzzyKP


But... they're brown! *shudder*

And they speak some form of weird gibberish that isn't American.

And that comes from one who claims to be hungarian

[VetLegion]

American immigration policy is a conspiracy against the American public. It's not a flaw in the design of the American republic, it's a feature.

[OneFootInTheGrave]

go to Sudan and open a call centre - that would help

outsourcing is the cure


we will create higher value jobs, and they will get jobs too, so no need to migrate for them, and we all win, like China and India are winning...

the only requirement needed is to let us set up a call centre there

[VetLegion]

Re: Fortress Europe (the reality)

Originally posted by Heraclitus
Hi all, I have a little question to my fellow Europeans.


What should we do about illegal immigration into our respective countries?

So, you show your true colors finally my Slovenian neighbour! There are like 10 foreigners in Slovenia and you are busy thinking how to get rid of them

Didn't you say you were an internationalist or something anyway?

[Heraclitus]

Originally posted by Pekka
EU is not a country

And we know humanitarian aid isn't just going to cut it. Throwing more money at it won't cut it either. So I guess what would be needed is all kinds of changes in rules and regulations as to help their businesses, but also all kinds of education and support, with the money of course.

Give a strong effort, a good care package with instructiosn and help given, hold the hands if you have to. After that? It really would be all we can do realistically so ... because if you would settle down some scores there, the bush wars and so forth, you'd have to take out some militias/tribes/clans and whatnot. I don't think EU is commited to that, plus it would have tons of problems as well outside "it's doable".

What I think is not waste anymore money, but give real resources, tools and help for some time. Sending some tents and water pumps doesn't do anything, and neither does giving money so most people can have some food at some point.

That’s more or less what I was thinking...

And if we are a bit pragmatic we don’t have to fix the whole of Africa and the Middle East, we just need to fix the countries close to us. Anyway if the economy is doing good and there is at least a semblance of a stable government things should be ok for at least a while despite tribal and ethnic differences. But if things go bad, we could force a bit of change into the AU and turn them into at least the guy who writes parking tickets if we can’t make him the policeman.

Anyway this would require a united European diplomatic effort* otherwise we’d never get past the the other powers with interests in Africa…

BTW I said the EU is giving more than any other country, I phrased that awkwardly. I meant to say that the EU gives more humanitarian aid than any country. I didn’t mean to imply it was one.


*

[Pekka]

Of course EU doesn't have to help. But the illegals won't stop flooding in unless their situation gets a lot better so... I just see that as something that woudl work, then again, "fix Africa" for example is not very easy or maybe it isn't even feasible. But that's the only way to stop illegal immigration IMO, because it's impossible to stop the people from coming or trying to come.

[VetLegion]

It is very easy to stop people from coming if there is political will to do so.

[Imran Siddiqui]

Re: Re: Fortress Europe (the reality)

Originally posted by VetLegion
There are like 10 foreigners in Slovenia and you are busy thinking how to get rid of them

[Heraclitus]

Re: Re: Fortress Europe (the reality)

Originally posted by VetLegion


So, you show your true colors finally my Slovenian neighbour! There are like 10 foreigners in Slovenia and you are busy thinking how to get rid of them

Didn't you say you were an internationalist or something anyway?

You must have misunderstood my question, I meant the whole of Europe not Slovenia…

And yes I am an internationalist, that’s why I mostly don't mind people from countries with democratic governments and values or those that come from regions with culture not too different form our European one.



BTW Croatians assimilate quite nicely.

[Pekka]

Also, there's a problem with this anyway, I mean I realize the problems of illegal immigration, it's just starting to show in Europe, however, I couldn't stop people in desperate condition trying to come. The most who just don't have any realistic choices... I mean I couldn't say to them that this is something you shouldn't try to do. Of course they should try and try to have a better life and opportunities. So there's a dilemma right there as well.

It's a completely other issue what kind of services they'd be entitled to. I think they should be entitled to some very basic services, so they are healthy and not in some kind of inhumane camps either, but other than that? Not much else really. A chance to enter ... maybe rules like free teaching of the language and some kind of basic stuff and if they try it, they could be eligible for some kind of jobs and income with organizations that would have work for these folks.

I don't know. But we can't stop them from coming really, and we can't just let them starve to death while they're here.

[Heraclitus]

Originally posted by Pekka
Of course EU doesn't have to help. But the illegals won't stop flooding in unless their situation gets a lot better so... I just see that as something that woudl work, then again, "fix Africa" for example is not very easy or maybe it isn't even feasible. But that's the only way to stop illegal immigration IMO, because it's impossible to stop the people from coming or trying to come.

Ehh, did you read the entire post? I'm just saying we should fix nearby countries, fixing the whole of Africa is next to impossible.

[Heraclitus]

Re: Re: Re: Fortress Europe (the reality)

Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui

There are a little fewer than 150,000 foreign immigrants and their descendants in Slovenia (which has a population of 2 million and one of the lowest birth rates in Europe). But I don’t mind them since they’re mostly Europeans, even most of the 40,000 Muslims are. Bosnian Islam is mostly ok, and compatible with democracy. There ere a few social issues since many of them are lower class… but it’s nothing as serious as what the French are dealing with.

Vetlegion’s comments aren’t funny in the way you think they are.