Hillary's Healthcare Plan

[DaShi]

Originally posted by Sarxis
What is I don't want health insurance? Or am homeless? Or just don't make enough for tax credits to make a difference in cost?

Besides, auto insurance is always optional, because driving is optional (in the strictest of senses).

It's still optional. Well, depending where you live. Some states have laws requiring health insurance.

[Apocalypse]

What is the minimum health insurance one would be able to get? I mean, could someone just get emergency room insurance?

I am in the army now, but before I did not have any health insurance. Of course I am young and healthy and didn't need it. The only health issue I have had in about ten years was strep once and I paid to get a shot in my ass to fix it up. If I was on insurance, it would be likely I would have to take the normal medication and it would have taken longer. Oddly enough they cost about the same.

[Theben]

Many Americans are finding it cheaper to fly overseas and have expensive operations than staying home.

So you'd better hope those "well trained doctors" aren't just in the U.S.

[Sandman]

Originally posted by PLATO
I am interested on what any Canadians and British might have to say about government health care. ????

It works, but I don't think 'socialised' healthcare would work for America. Obviously it's better, but the right would lay into it with their wrecking balls in a way which can't happen anywhere else.

[lord of the mark]

Originally posted by Ramo

I can't imagine that an empirical run of a similar system is going to less accurate than an untested model of the actual system.

I dont buy that the systems are similar.

The big difference in the system would be lower administrative costs.

I read the Hillary plan, and Im not sure thats where most of the benefits come from, and a fortiori not from lower amin costs related to changes in fragmentation.

[q]Single payer is the natural extension, and you need a public option open to everyone for that to happen. You also get greater control over costs in the industry with a dominant public insurance,

Thats not single payer. Single payer, IIUC, means that providors cant sell to anyone other than the public insurance concern. IIUC thats what they have in Canada.

That scares not only the insurance industry, but the folks who are afraid the public scheme will be inferior to what they currently have. Its political death, and talking about which plan will get closer to it is probably not good for those plans. Its also such a distant and unlikely thing, its not really worth comparing the plans on that basis.

Its also a fact that no prez is going to get their plan passed without considerable give and take with congress, and thats going to be true whatever the partisan makeup of Congress is.

[Ben Kenobi]

What is the minimum health insurance one would be able to get? I mean, could someone just get emergency room insurance?

You wouldn't have the choice. Our supposedly free system asks for 75 dollars a month which you have to pay, if you pay taxes. It adds up. You have to pay for the same level of insurance as everyone else. If you want more you can pay for more, but you would have to pay for both your private coverage and your public coverage. The option, "I'm young and healthy and don't need to pay right now", is not available.

[DinoDoc]

Originally posted by Ben Kenobi
If you want more you can pay for more, but you would have to pay for both your private coverage and your public coverage.

I thought the provinces banned private health care. Part of the problem with it being rationed IMO.

[Ben Kenobi]

A basic problem, though, is that the AMA makes training for a GP ridiculously long and expensive (relative to other countries), therefore making the salaries they need to get out debt excessive. What'd be nice is if we could incentivize the use of people with intermediate training for these types of situations.

You have an influx of doctors. We are losing the ones we train. Clearly your system is superior at least in terms of doctor compensation.

[Ben Kenobi]

I thought the provinces banned private health care. Part of the problem with it being rationed IMO.

The system doesn't cover dental, prescriptions, things like glasses and contact lenses. Or in my case hearing aids and their batteries.

Yes we have free health care, but the problem is the question, what does it cover?

The other thing is that there are private clinics aplenty, so that those who can afford it can jump the queue. There has been much hue and cry over the existence of a parallel health care sector, but the truth is that the folks who are wealthy can easily get what they need right away. It's just the rest of us that have to deal with the public system.

[Ramo]

I dont buy that the systems are similar.

The main difference is mandates, and that's not going to be that significant. Like I wrote in the previous post, you're not going to get initial universal coverage anyways due to impracticalities in enforcing mandates.

Thats not single payer. Single payer, IIUC, means that providors cant sell to anyone other than the public insurance concern. IIUC thats what they have in Canada.

Canada has the purest form of single payer, where there aren't private insurances. The UK's single payer system, for instance, has the option of private supplementary insurance. As far as single payer systems go, Canada is an exception, and probably not an ideal one.

That scares not only the insurance industry, but the folks who are afraid the public scheme will be inferior to what they currently have. Its political death, and talking about which plan will get closer to it is probably not good for those plans. Its also such a distant and unlikely thing, its not really worth comparing the plans on that basis.

Not really. The whole idea behind having a public insurance open to everyone is that it's going to reduce administrative costs. If that weren't the case, the option would be a pointless addition in the three plans. That's the genius behind Edwards' plan (and therefore Obama/Clinton). If it's cheaper (which it should be, given that a level playing field would be imposed, in terms of not denying coverage, etc.), nearly everyone gets it, and we get single payer eventually.

[Zkribbler]

Originally posted by Ben Kenobi
It's just the rest of us that have to deal with the public system.

And the public system is grossly underfunded.

[Ben Kenobi]

And the public system is grossly underfunded.

Six month waiting period for an MRI.

I keep telling Americans, there's a reason why Canadians go south of the border. With our dollar high there will be more of us.

[Wezil]

Originally posted by Ramo
Canada has the purest form of single payer, where there aren't private insurances. The UK's single payer system, for instance, has the option of private supplementary insurance. As far as single payer systems go, Canada is an exception, and probably not an ideal one.

Yep. Canada, North Korea and Cuba. We are in good company.

While LotM is partially correct, there is no "clamour" to "drop" the current system of universal coverage, there is a huge clamour to allow choice and freedom into the system. Even the courts have agreed the current system is unconstitutional.

I dealt with our glorious healthcare system last week:

First, I had to go to a walkin clinic b/c I have no family doctor (and haven't had one for twenty years now...).

Second, I had to wait 2 hours in a waiting room with hacking and coughing patients sandwiched all round me.

Third, when I was finally blessed enough to see a Dr. I recieved a whole 5 minute rush job (after all there was a whole waiting room behind me).

Fourth, I ended up sicker than I started (see 2nd point above). I went in for hearing/ear trouble related to allergies and left with a lung infection.

Fifth, I had no choice but to go this route. While I would gladly have paid to see a Dr. privately, my government will not allow me to do this.

Great system.

[MarkG]

require every American to carry health insurance

it's not required by law that if you have a job you must be insured?

[Patroklos]

In the UK, we pay less per person and as a percentage of our GDP for universal coverage.

Universal crap.

Many Americans are finding it cheaper to fly overseas and have expensive operations than staying home.

People come to America for quality service. If you can't afford the procedure here, I doubt you can cross the ocean for it, I call BS.