For the homosexuals:

[molly bloom]

Originally posted by Sirotnikov

So what's the point?
Making any discussion of being gay taboo?

Some people are murdered cause they were born gay.

No, they're murdered because other people are ignorant and bigoted, and have learned their ignorance and bigotry.

You're placing the emphasis in the wrong place. It's not homosexuality that is at fault, it's the attitude directed towards it.

Some cause they were born female

Emphasis in wrong place again.

Some cause they were born with various genetic problems.

See above.

I do hope you weren't seriously suggesting that homosexuality is a genetic defect, illness or problem. I have no misgivings about being compared in general with women, since I'd quite like to have a woman's stamina and pain tolerance.

Asking her if she would rather have been born a male is a very tense question. But it is interesting none the less.

I doubt she'd find it that interesting. Being asked a rather obvious question like that in a society with a one child per family policy and a history of female infanticide might task the most generous of personalities.

Wow, you are over-charged for cappucino on a daily basis.

No, because I make my own. London is an expensive city- ground rents, rates, insurance, wages et cetera.

I believe you'll find it's a reference to ironic American phraseology, possibly even originating in Yiddish culture.

right... you're welcome to ask a 3rd party what they think of this discussion

Being the hugely condescending and patronising individual you take me for, I'll settle for my own clearly superior judgment, based on my vast experience.

You still should work on your style though.

Thanks, but as someone who has studied English literature in depth, I feel I should inform you that I'm always at work on my style.

You might want to work on your powers of self-perception though. Or do I mean self-deception ?

[molly bloom]

Originally posted by Ben Kenobi


It's from Wikipedia, that tremendously anti-gay biased source.

Your sarcasm skill set needs expanding.

The source is hardly relevant- although how anyone could imagine that Sri Lanka (renowned as a Buddhist centre of pilgrimage since antiquity) was a majority Muslim country beats me.

They'd have to have ignored an awful lot of reporting in the news on the Tamil-Sinhalese war, and not have read a fair bit of history.

Feel free to nitpick,

So getting the facts right is nitpicking ? Not doing any paid editing are you, Obi Gyn ?

but I don't see you contesting the majority of the list or disputing the facts as they stand.

Strangely I'm not a paid or freelance ambassador for Islam or any Muslim government. Though given the wilful ignorance displayed about Muslims and Islamic history in Poly on occasion, I feel that perhaps a stipend from the Ismaili Institute might come in handy...

The thread in any case was addressed to 'homosexuals'.

Not 'homosexuals wrongly assumed to be comparing the difference in treatment of homosexuals in Muslim states with the treatment meted out to them in non-Muslim states.'


Perhaps you have this thread confused with another one.

[molly bloom]

Originally posted by Ben Kenobi

Calling molly's bluff.

Since you don't know me, and couldn't possibly have known which states I had in mind, I fail to see how you could possibly have thought you were:

Calling my bluff.

What larks.

I didn't believe he had any intent on posting a comprehensive list

Oh faith, how it works wonders.

let alone exploring the nature of the hostility between Islam and homosexuality.

Mmm. I seem to missed that part of my threadly obligations. Where was that in the requirements for posting in this thread ?

[molly bloom]

Originally posted by Ben Kenobi

I'm sorry, the point I am trying to make is that Christianity has different beliefs on freedom to worship

It does now. Only taken 2000 years to get that way. Not bad going for the peaceful religion.


Oh look- we're discussing religion in a thread that's meant to be about 'homosexuality' and intolerance.

I'm sure that's never happened before.

Tell you what Obi Gyn, just give us the Big Spiel on how marvellously superior Christianity is to every other form of religious mania and intolerance and get it over with.

I think one of the reasons we have such strong democracies in the west is because of Christianity.

Which religious and Christian supporters of democracy in the West did you have mind ?


The Reverend Ian Paisley ?

The German Catholic bishops who joined the Nazi Party ?

Fine examples of the liberal democratic tradition of the Enlightenment.

Or did you have in mind that sterling example of openness, liberality and consensus, the Vatican City State ?

[b etor]

Re: Re: Re: For the homosexuals:

Originally posted by BeBro


If that's true she should have sued the doctors. Who wants to be a vegetarian?

seriously.

[Kuciwalker]

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Jesus Christ, your posts are long enough on their own. I can't imagine what 6 in a row look like.

[Ben Kenobi]

Your sarcasm skill set needs expanding.

The source is hardly relevant- although how anyone could imagine that Sri Lanka (renowned as a Buddhist centre of pilgrimage since antiquity) was a majority Muslim country beats me.

They'd have to have ignored an awful lot of reporting in the news on the Tamil-Sinhalese war, and not have read a fair bit of history.

I'm not perfect. I do make mistakes. At least I'm willing to admit them. I recalled that the muslims called Ceylon 'Serendib' and I wasn't sure the percentage of Muslims in Ceylon.

Now I take it you have no beef with the other 20 entries which are muslims majority countries.

So getting the facts right is nitpicking ? Not doing any paid editing are you, Obi Gyn ?

It's one thing I do, yes. Again, getting one entry wrong out of 20, and have that be the entire focus of your debate is 'nitpicking' as you have no intent of discussing Islam and homosexuality together.

I bet you can't even put those two words in the same sentence together!

Oh wait, but you said you had a list to show. Where's your list molly?

Not 'homosexuals wrongly assumed to be comparing the difference in treatment of homosexuals in Muslim states with the treatment meted out to them in non-Muslim states.'

Perhaps you have this thread confused with another one.

So you are angry that I provided the list that you were unwilling to provide? Look Molly, you brought up the issue of 'countries that have capital punishment for gay people', and that you were willing to make a long list of those countries that are responsible.

But you never did make a list, and I decided to because I thought it was very interesting you would do that and then decline.

[Ben Kenobi]

It does now. Only taken 2000 years to get that way. Not bad going for the peaceful religion.

So 10 years ago Christians were executiing gay people?

Tell you what Obi Gyn, just give us the Big Spiel on how marvellously superior Christianity is to every other form of religious mania and intolerance and get it over with.

Hmm, ok. Just so long as you can have the stomach to talk about the religious mania and intolerance of Islam.

Oh wait, you actually say the opposite, which is hardly surprising, that Islam is more tolerant (at least one branch of it, which is the only one you will mention).,

I just find it funny molly, the lengths you are willing to go to whitewash the obvious.

Which religious and Christian supporters of democracy in the West did you have mind ?


The Reverend Ian Paisley ?

The German Catholic bishops who joined the Nazi Party ?

Fine examples of the liberal democratic tradition of the Enlightenment.

Or did you have in mind that sterling example of openness, liberality and consensus, the Vatican City State ?

I said Christianity, not Catholicism. For some reason you believe that the only Christians I care about are Catholics. I'm talking about those strange folks in America (oh wait you hate them too, can't mention 'murricans') who founded their entire nation on the principles of democracy. Maybe you've heard of them?

[Ben Kenobi]

Since you don't know me, and couldn't possibly have known which states I had in mind, I fail to see how you could possibly have thought you were:

Oh I was curious, but I also figured you had no intent of posting a list, and that no one would either answer for you or ask you for one.

Now perhaps you can prove me wrong by saying, hey, thanks for posting the list and saving me the time. Instead you poke holes in it to make it seem like the holes are the only thing there.

Maybe I should come up with a clever nickname for you Molly. I guess I'm jost not as brilliant as you are to come up with 'Obi Gyn'.

[Bugs ****ing Bunny]

That's out of date. How about "Ben Dover"?

[Ming]

Enough with the personal stuff folks... a difference of opinion is one thing... making it personal will get you restricted.

discuss the topic and NOT the posters.

[SlowwHand]

Edit. Should read to the end of the thread before posting.

[Mercator]

right... you're welcome to ask a 3rd party what they think of this discussion

Oh, oh... I missed that one earlier.

I vote for Molly.

@Ben: Why are you bringing up the Muslims in the first place? It's completely irrelevant to this discussion.

And if you want a list... How about this one:

http://www.ilga.org/news_results.asp?LanguageID=1&FileCategory=9&ZoneID=7&FileID=1058

[LordShiva]

Originally posted by Mercator
I vote for Molly.

@Ben: Why are you bringing up the Muslims in the first place? It's completely irrelevant to this discussion.

That was my question, too

[Nikolai]

Ben ftw. And actually, when religion are brought up, Islam is just as relevant as Christianity.