"We've invented adolescence, and stretched it out too far" says psychologist

[Patroklos]

I think you will burn people out.

[Ben Kenobi]

Couple of points here. This is no different then the learned helplessness we see in other cases.

Why is it that I was fully capable of having a full license at 16 as my parents were, and my younger brother will have to wait until 21?

Now I have 10 years experience on the road, and my brother will only have half as much as I do when he is my age.

Why are we discouraging people from getting married at 18 or 19 since that is too young? It's the perfect age. You have your kids and work. If you wait until you are 35 or 40 then chances are you will never have children, the odds are that much more difficult.

It's more complex then to say that society wants to restrict teenage labour, much of the jobs that teenagers used to do have been priced out of the market by raises in the minumum wage. If you have to pay the teenager the same as an adult with more experience, then it's less likely they will work at all.

The problem is not just the educational system, but the expectations of society. When you need a college degree to pump gas, then you know something is wrong here. Do we really need people to get 16 years of education when 12 will do?

[Jon Miller]

Originally posted by Patroklos
I think you will burn people out.

I am not trying to give people more work during the day then they do now. It might be the case I don't remember my gradeschool experience well. I just want people in school longer, because their parents are gone for 10+ hours during the day and it is damaging to have them home when neither of their parents are home. So they stay at school and can either take electives, recreate, study, or do sports.

The only intended extra work I have in my system is that the summer isn't off, and it is just a waste currently anyways.

JM

[Patroklos]

Do we really need people to get 16 years of education when 12 will do?

There are other things than the current topic that contribute to this. This arrogant up turned nosed snobbishness we show to such people and jobs is disturbing.

[Koyaanisqatsi]

Originally posted by Jon Miller


With 1-3 hours of recreation (or sports) per day (for an 11 hour day) as well as 1 hour lunch, I don't think that is like a 55 hour work week. Also, it is what many people who are involved in after school activities already do...

Also, most 3rd graders wouldn't have any homework at the end of the day, and many 6th graders wouldn't either (most 7-9th graders would have homework to do outside of the school day with 1 study hall).

JM

Cool. Can you fit a two minute hate in there somewhere too? As long as we're scheduling their entire lives, it makes sense to throw in some time for letting out their emotions. Wouldn't want them to interfere with productivity, you know.

[Patroklos]

The only intended extra work I have in my system

When do the teachers grade papers or put together a syllabus?

[Koyaanisqatsi]

Originally posted by Jon Miller
I just want people in school longer, because their parents are gone for 10+ hours during the day and it is damaging to have them home when neither of their parents are home. So they stay at school and can either take electives, recreate, study, or do sports.

JM

Ah, so you intend to increase their self-determination by ensuring they are supervised at all times.

[Jon Miller]

My experience in grade school/middle school:

I got kicked out of 1st grade, and mostly did it homeschooled. 2nd grade was homeschooled. 3rd grade was at a school. 4th grade was homeschooled. I finally got considered as advanced in 5th grade, they really didn't have the stuff to handle me so they just allowed me to do what I wanted. So I read fiction books in the library most of the school day. I did the same in 6th.

How many hours do most grade school/middle school students do class work? I remember 2ish recesses in 5th/6th grade (I jsut read).

JM

[Jon Miller]

Originally posted by Koyaanisqatsi


Cool. Can you fit a two minute hate in there somewhere too? As long as we're scheduling their entire lives, it makes sense to throw in some time for letting out their emotions. Wouldn't want them to interfere with productivity, you know.

1-3 hours of recreation

JM

[Jon Miller]

Originally posted by Patroklos


When do the teachers grade papers or put together a syllabus?

During study hall, recreation time. Maybe more teachers also.

I really am not adding more stuff for the students to do during the day. I just want them to stay in school instead of going home to be by themselves with no supervision.

I think that children (those below the age of 10) supervision is important.

Remember, this is intended to end at grade 9, which is age 13 or so. Then they can do wahtever they want (real job, college, etc).

JM

[Koyaanisqatsi]

How many hours do most grade school/middle school students do class work? I remember 2ish recesses in 5th/6th grade (I jsut read).

My grade school experience is even more distorted, but for most people in the school it was 8 to 3:15 with two 15 minutes recesses and a 25 minute lunch. One of the recesses went away at 6th grade.

[Jon Miller]

Originally posted by Koyaanisqatsi


Ah, so you intend to increase their self-determination by ensuring they are supervised at all times.

I don't think that 10 yearolds, (at least, based upon what I have seen), should spend lots of unsupervised time. It is asking for trouble.

JM

[Koyaanisqatsi]

Originally posted by Jon Miller
1-3 hours of recreation

JM

Scheduled, supervised recreation periods are not the same thing as unstructured time. They're what happens in prisons, not real life.

[b etor]

Originally posted by Dis
having played computer games with 16 year old kids, I'm qualified to say they are dumb as rocks and too immature to hold a job.

you've never played a computer game against me.

Originally posted by Ben Kenobi

Why are we discouraging people from getting married at 18 or 19 since that is too young? It's the perfect age. You have your kids and work. If you wait until you are 35 or 40 then chances are you will never have children, the odds are that much more difficult.

18/19 is NOT the perfect age for marriage. at that age you are still an emotional teenager and your brain hasn't fully developed. my parents got married when they were 19 and 20 and their marriage is complete ****.
35/40 is a long wait.
25-27 sounds good to me.

[Jon Miller]

Originally posted by Koyaanisqatsi

How many hours do most grade school/middle school students do class work? I remember 2ish recesses in 5th/6th grade (I jsut read).

My grade school experience is even more distorted, but for most people in the school it was 8 to 3:15 with two 15 minutes recesses and a 25 minute lunch. One of the recesses went away at 6th grade.

So that is like 6 hours of class? I think that in my 11 hour day I only have like 6. (3 hours recreation/gym/free choice, 1 hour study hall, 1 hour lunch)

JM