What do you do when you go to Heaven?

[Nostromo]

Originally posted by Ben Kenobi


Ever hear of substance dualism?

The belief that the soul and body can be disconnected from each other, isn't really supportable. You can't have one without the other.

It isn't that we love the material world, it is that we see the two as irreductably connected. This is why it doesn't make sense to say that Christianity hates the body and it's pleasures, rather it seeks the pleasures to be directed in a proper manner.

Its like asking a compsci student if he ever heard of C++.

In contemporary philosophy of Mind, almost everyone rejects substance dualism. The Mind is nothing more than a secretion of the brain. There isn't something called the brain that is related, somehow, to another thing called the Mind. Mind and Brain are the one and the same thing. So there you have it.

A possible objection here could be that the Mind isn't the same thing as the Soul. But what is the function of the Soul? Everything seems to be taken care of by the Mind/Brain. The Soul seems superfluous at this point.

[KrazyHorse]

I'd **** as many female angels as I could before God tossed me out.

[Jon Miller]

I remember hearing that angels **** by touch index fingers

JM
(a crazy, literally, russian girl told me this)

[Nostromo]

angels don't have pussies nor penises, didn't you know?

But they have mouths. Maybe they even have butts also. What's the word amongst theologians? Do Angels have butts?

[Nostromo]

Originally posted by Jon Miller
I remember hearing that angels **** by touch index fingers

JM
(a crazy, literally, russian girl told me this)

She saw Barbarella

[Elok]

Look at Revelation. There's no temple in the New Jerusalem, since the people glorify God automatically in all their actions. It's life, only better.

And it's quite possible that Jesus got the runs. It seems thoroughly irrelevant (and puerile) to dwell on it, but the gospels say He got tired, and of course there's the crucifixion, so why not physical illness as well? We're taught that Jesus took on all aspects of humanity except for sin.

[Ben Kenobi]

In contemporary philosophy of Mind, almost everyone rejects substance dualism. The Mind is nothing more than a secretion of the brain. There isn't something called the brain that is related, somehow, to another thing called the Mind. Mind and Brain are the one and the same thing. So there you have it.

That's one theory. There are many others, that insist that the mind and the brain are not necessarily one and the same, and that the mind is a non-physical entity. The question then becomes how are the too related. I don't think that the mind is just the secretions of the brain, it seems to operate on a different level.

A possible objection here could be that the Mind isn't the same thing as the Soul. But what is the function of the Soul? Everything seems to be taken care of by the Mind/Brain. The Soul seems superfluous at this point.

Well one of your assumptions is that the physical world is all that exists. If there is a spiritual world, then there is a very important need for the soul.

[Ben Kenobi]

We wouldn't exist if we followed Christianities "proper manner".

Why not? Christians say sex is most fun in marriage.

[Nostromo]

Originally posted by Ben Kenobi

That's one theory. There are many others, that insist that the mind and the brain are not necessarily one and the same, and that the mind is a non-physical entity. The question then becomes how are the too related. I don't think that the mind is just the secretions of the brain, it seems to operate on a different level.

There tons of theories, but substance dualism is almost universally rejected by all contemporary philosophers of Mind, not to mention scientists. Substance dualism is viewed as an old theory that is not philosophically nor scientifically relevant anymore, like phlogiston theory or geocentrism.

Well one of your assumptions is that the physical world is all that exists. If there is a spiritual world, then there is a very important need for the soul.

What is this so-called spiritual world? Is it Heaven? or Hell? Where is it? And if Heaven is purely spiritual, why do we need to resurect bodies?

[Jon Miller]

I beleive that there is stuff about the physical world that we don't understand, obviously said I believe in God, but I don't think that there is a seperate spiritual 'world'. Definitely there has been no detection of it or the soul by science, which should have happened if some of te traditional views of them were true.

JM

[Ben Kenobi]

There tons of theories, but substance dualism is almost universally rejected by all contemporary philosophers of Mind, not to mention scientists. Substance dualism is viewed as an old theory that is not philosophically nor scientifically relevant anymore, like phlogiston theory or geocentrism.

First off, why must philosophical theories be scientifically relevant? They make different claims about truth, and much that philosophy believes cannot be scientifically proven.

Do you believe that the only form of epistemology is empirical knowledge?

What is this so-called spiritual world? Is it Heaven? or Hell? Where is it? And if Heaven is purely spiritual, why do we need to resurect bodies?

It's a different substance altogether in the world that we see today.

The point I am trying to make is who we are is intimately connected to our bodies. There are some who say that our mind can be disconnected from our body, and it does not change who we are, and there are others who believe that there cannot be any existance without the body.

The body that we are supposed to get is not the same as the one that we have, which would be impossible due to the death and decay after death. It is our resurrection body, some kind of combination of spirit and flesh.

[Lancer]

JM, I've got a theory on that. I believe this creation was created for a purpose. The purpose seems to me as an...guest...of the creation to be the bush about which we here are beating, faith. If this universe had any single thing which revealed the fingerprints of the creator it would undo the purpose. The knowledge of the irrefutable fact would remove the need for faith. So..."there has been no detection of it or the soul by science" would merely be a prerequisite of the purpose. These spiritual things must remain undetectable, a matter of faith.

[lord of the mark]

Originally posted by nostromo

In contemporary philosophy of Mind, almost everyone rejects substance dualism. The Mind is nothing more than a secretion of the brain. There isn't something called the brain that is related, somehow, to another thing called the Mind. Mind and Brain are the one and the same thing. So there you have it.

If I built something made of electronics, that reacted to the same inputs with the same outputs as my brain does, could we say its "mind" was any different? Yet its physical make up would be different, right? Weigh different, different elements, etc. Its physical attributes would be different from my brains, yet its mental attributes would not be.


The question is whether, if I were in a state (call it heaven if you will) where there was no possibility for inputs and outputs to the "physical" world, would it be possible to call whatever what was going on "mental activity" or even to say that "I" existed. The mind body problem seems more tractable than the question of what it means for the self to exist.

[Nostromo]

Originally posted by Jon Miller
I beleive that there is stuff about the physical world that we don't understand, obviously said I believe in God, but I don't think that there is a seperate spiritual 'world'. Definitely there has been no detection of it or the soul by science, which should have happened if some of te traditional views of them were true.

JM

So how do you envision the afterlife? A sort of Night of the Living dead scenario, where all the dead people get out of their tombs?

[Nostromo]

Originally posted by Ben Kenobi

First off, why must philosophical theories be scientifically relevant? They make different claims about truth, and much that philosophy believes cannot be scientifically proven.

Do you believe that the only form of epistemology is empirical knowledge?

First, human minds can be scientifically studied, just like any other thing in the world. The human mind isn't off-limits.

Second, I said that substance dualism isn't philosophically or scientifically relevant. In other words, its not a theory that is taken seriously by philosophers of mind. Its not considered a viable option anymore. However, property dualism is still doing well, AFAIK.

Some religious people will have a hard time accepting this. But I'm not sure why. Why is it a problem if you believe that your body will be eventually resurrected? Or they could always claim that the mind is one thing and the soul another.

It's a different substance altogether in the world that we see today.

The point I am trying to make is who we are is intimately connected to our bodies. There are some who say that our mind can be disconnected from our body, and it does not change who we are, and there are others who believe that there cannot be any existance without the body.

The body that we are supposed to get is not the same as the one that we have, which would be impossible due to the death and decay after death. It is our resurrection body, some kind of combination of spirit and flesh.

Its not very clear, but it has some poetic quality. If you say it is so, I believe you