Teh Confederacy is persecuted!

[Ramo]

It's absurd to take down a Confederate flag on grounds of Fascism or totalitarianism.

I'd guess that European Neo-Nazis (like their American counterparts) have appropriated the Confederate battle flag.

[Wycoff]

Originally posted by Kuciwalker
That's really weird.

I grew up 75 miles SW of Pittsburgh. You could see rebel flags everywhere, mostly on clothing or as decorations on pickup trucks. The irony is that these areas (Southwest PA, Western MD, Northern WV) were historically staunchly union. The people who are wearing them today have no real sense of the history behind the flag. They may say some states rights rhetoric, but racism is one major motivating factor behind flying that flag in those areas.

[lord of the mark]

Originally posted by Wycoff


Northern Virginia isn't the south anymore. The new North-South dividing line stars with the Rappahannock, not the Mason Dixon line or the Potomac.

BTW, Kuci, I've seen more Confederate Flags flying in Western PA than I have in Northern Virginia or even in tidewater Virginia. Ironic, isn't it.

Tidewater VA is certainly the South. Perhaps this might hint to you that the confed battle flag is used to symbolize something other than southern pride?

[Wycoff]

Originally posted by Ramo
I'd guess that European Neo-Nazis (like their American counterparts) have appropriated the Confederate battle flag.

Of course. However, it's generally absurd to say things like "the Confederacy was Fascist." The rebel flag isn't Fascist in and of itself; it could be a symbol appropriated by Fascists. Most people who long for what the Confederacy stood for here in the U.S. are far from Fascists. Racists, yes.

I'm thinking as much about a local Confederate war memorial here as I am this Polish incident. The memorial was vandalized, and people spray painted "Fascists" across it. I've always thought that that was stupid.

[Patroklos]

God only knows what those crazy Yanks fly it for.

Tidewater is the South, just that there are alot of military people there. Most are from other parts of the south mind you, but we get a good group of Yanks and West Coast types.

[lord of the mark]

Originally posted by Wycoff


Northern Virginia isn't the south anymore. The new North-South dividing line stars with the Rappahannock, not the Mason Dixon line or the Potomac.
.

Arbitrary. You still run into folks born here, esp in the city of Alexandria, with southern accents. less so in Fairfax, and not at all in Arlington. Its also confusing cause we have lots of (white) in migrants who were born in the south, anywhere from Richmond to Georgia and beyond. They tend to settle more on this side of the river than in Md. So Id say theres still a slight southern flavor to Fairfax county. Slightly more so to Prince William and Stafford (both north of the Rappahannock) on the other hand Fredericksburg city, and Spotsylvania County are being rapidly suburbanized, and losing alot of "local character"

So its not nearly that cut and dried. Hell, theres still some vague southern feeling in parts of Baltimore, in some ways more so than around here.

[Arrian]

I'm thinking as much about a local Confederate war memorial here as I am this Polish incident. The memorial was vandalized, and people spray painted "Fascists" across it. I've always thought that that was stupid.

And it was stupid. I think we all agree that the CSA wasn't fascist.

-Arrian

[lord of the mark]

Originally posted by Wycoff


Of course. However, it's generally absurd to say things like "the Confederacy was Fascist." The rebel flag isn't Fascist in and of itself; it could be a symbol appropriated by Fascists. Most people who long for what the Confederacy stood for here in the U.S. are far from Fascists. Racists, yes.

I'm thinking as much about a local Confederate war memorial here as I am this Polish incident. The memorial was vandalized, and people spray painted "Fascists" across it. I've always thought that that was stupid.

well thats just using fascist as meaning "right winger" the way "commmie" is used for leftwinger.

[Wycoff]

Originally posted by lord of the mark Tidewater VA is certainly the South. Perhaps this might hint to you that the confed battle flag is used to symbolize something other than southern pride?

I'm not disputing this point. In my experience, most people who fly the Confederate flag are bigoted to some degree. You don't see it that often down here because there people who are bigoted are too afraid to wear it publicy; there is a large black popluation, and I don't think many of them are very sympathetic to it at all.

I was just mentioning my experience to Kuci because he was gloating about leaving Virginia. From my experience, he left Northern Virginia to go to a much more backward place. Maybe Pittsburgh itself is different, but go 10 miles outside of the city and you'll think you're in Arkansas or Alabama (minus the heat). It was some good-natured ribbing.

[Kuciwalker]

I was just mentioning my experience to Kuci because he was gloating about leaving Virginia.

Oh no, I was gloating about moving to Northern Virginia

From my experience, he left Northern Virginia to go to a much more backward place. Maybe Pittsburgh itself is different, but go 10 miles outside of the city and you'll think you're in Arkansas or Alabama (minus the heat). It was some good-natured ribbing.

1) Pittsburgh is different.

2) I don't really interact with anyone outside of CMU (except a couple Pitt people).

[Wycoff]

Originally posted by lord of the mark Arbitrary. You still run into folks born here, esp in the city of Alexandria, with southern accents. less so in Fairfax, and not at all in Arlington. Its also confusing cause we have lots of (white) in migrants who were born in the south, anywhere from Richmond to Georgia and beyond. They tend to settle more on this side of the river than in Md. So Id say theres still a slight southern flavor to Fairfax county. Slightly more so to Prince William and Stafford (both north of the Rappahannock) on the other hand Fredericksburg city, and Spotsylvania County are being rapidly suburbanized, and losing alot of "local character"

Do you always have to be such a stickler, LoTM?

Of course it's going to be arbitrary. Of course there's going to be contrary examples on both sides of the line.
Prince William county gets a hillbilly rap from those closer to the beltway, but it's not that Southern. It's standard No.Va. surburbia with a stronger than average mixture of Hispanic and Korean subculture. You're hard pressed to find a Confederate flag there outside of the battlefields. Maybe some of the oldtimers there are Southern, but the younger population is typically suburbanite.

To me, Fredericksburg is a good marker where the Northern Virginia feeling ends and the South begins. It's the outer ring of D.C.'s suburbs, the furthest outpost of Northern Virginia. It's not perfect, but then again neither was the Mason-Dixon line.

[Wycoff]

Originally posted by lord of the mark well thats just using fascist as meaning "right winger" the way "commmie" is used for leftwinger.

Which is stupid.

[Ramo]

Most people who long for what the Confederacy stood for here in the U.S. are far from Fascists.

Except the incident was in Poland...

[Wycoff]

Originally posted by Ramo


Except the incident was in Poland...

Right. In the O.P., Heresson said that the Poles were arrested for flying that flag on the grounds that they were "promoting a fascist / totalitarian regime." By flying the flag they were certainly promoting racist sentiments. They may have been advertising their fascist leanings. However, they weren't promoting a fascist regime, as the regime that is promoted by flying that flag was not fascist.

We can say that the fascist appropriated the flag and are using it as a symbol, but until a fascist group using the Confederate flag as a symbol actually takes power somewhere, flying that flag can only "promote" one regime. That regime was the Confederacy, which wasn't Fascist.

[lord of the mark]

Originally posted by Wycoff


Do you always have to be such a stickler, LoTM?

Of course it's going to be arbitrary. Of course there's going to be contrary examples on both sides of the line.
Prince William county gets a hillbilly rap from those closer to the beltway, but it's not that Southern. It's standard No.Va. surburbia with a stronger than average mixture of Hispanic and Korean subculture. You're hard pressed to find a Confederate flag there outside of the battlefields. Maybe some of the oldtimers there are Southern, but the younger population is typically suburbanite.

I was gonna say something about the hispanics, but decided to keep it short

My impression still is that the white folks in PW are more hillbillyish, but TBH I haven spent a super amount of time out there lately. The rising housing prices change all kinds of things, so it may have a lot to do with when someone bought.


and its still pretty easy around here to find grits at a diner. I consider that a mark of the south, but then maybe I didnt spend enough time in diners before I left true Yankee land? Or maybe diners themselves are islands of southernness amidst the kimchee joints and the latte bars?