Teh Confederacy is persecuted!

[lord of the mark]

[QUOTE] Originally posted by PLATO

Haha! Interestingly enough, the Emancipation Proclamation freed the slaves in the South in 1863. Slavery continued in the north until the passage of the 13th amendment in late 1865.

Slavery had already been abolished in the North by 1860. The areas of the USA where slavery was protected were the border states, Maryland and Kentucky mainly. Do you know why? Cause Lincoln was afraid they would defect to the CSA. Slavery survived in KY and MD only because of the leverage provided by the CSA.

And yes...the South has moved on. It has also retained the concept of State's Rights.

Considering the large number of southerners who voted for FDR and the New Deal, Im not so sure thats accurate. Just at it was a southerner, Andy Jackson, who opposed secession by South Carolina. The South only rallied around States Rights when it became associated with race and resistance to civil rights legislation.

In not accepting the doctrine of federalism, the South continues to push a very valid debate. Northerners are simply soo caught up on being biased against anything Southern that they cannot objectively look at this as a legitimate debate. When the South raises any point, northerners are very quick to cover their ears and shout "Slavery!"

I dont see "the South" raising points. Its too diverse. Is congressman Lewis of Atlanta not also a voice of the South? Senator Landrieu? You seem to be using "South" as a code word for a particular political position.

In fact the real reassertion of states rights as an ideology apart from race, came in the late 70s, and was associated NOT with the south, but with the West, and was callled the Sage Brush rebellion.

The flag of the South is really the flag of the ideal of personal freedom. The sad part is that the northern propoganda machine and the federalist who are scared of the debate are working hard to turn it into a symbol of intolerence.

Personal Freedom is not by any means the same as states rights.

[Patroklos]

The South only rallied around States Rights when it became associated with race and resistance to civil rights legislation.

John C. Calhoun might have something to say about that.

[lord of the mark]

Originally posted by Patroklos


John C. Calhoun might have something to say about that.

Calhoun didnt represent the whole south. South Carolina was ready to secede over the tariff question, to be sure, but had hardly any support in the rest of the South. And dont forget that slavery too was a big issue for Calhoun.

[Patroklos]

Calhoun didnt represent the whole south. South Carolina was ready to secede over the tariff question, to be sure, but had hardly any support in the rest of the South. And dont forget that slavery too was a big issue for Calhoun.

It proves that they were not just harping on slavery, but anything that threatened their sovereignty. Slavery just happened to be one of those things.

[lord of the mark]

Originally posted by Patroklos


It proves that they were not just harping on slavery, but anything that threatened their sovereignty. Slavery just happened to be one of those things.

Tariffs presumably threatened the "soveriegnty" of every state (if you buy that constitutional interpretation). South Carolina made a big deal about it cause it threatened their economic interests. Every state will invoke states rights when it suits their interests. The New England states did in 1812. The only times when the South as a region rallied around states rights was when it was necessary to defend slavery, and later to defend de jure segregation.

States rights is no longer a unifying theme in the South anymore, largely because race is not that important an issue, and blacks have so much political power in the South today.

[Kuciwalker]

Originally posted by PLATO
I'm no fan of morons waiving any flag. However, I am a big fan of folks who waive any flag that stands for greater freedom.

What does that have to do with this thread?

[Kuciwalker]

Originally posted by PLATO
No...you really don't understand!
The principle of State's Rights is what is represented by the Confederate Flag.

BS. If you really cared about states' rights you wouldn't associate them with such a despicable symbol.

[Kuciwalker]

Originally posted by Patroklos
Oh yeah, I break it out at SCC football games, and any other Southern sports event to.

Obviously that is because I support the KKK, not Southern tailgate culture.

What does the military think of treason, again?

[Arrian]

Haha! Interestingly enough, the Emancipation Proclamation freed the slaves in the South in 1863. Slavery continued in the north until the passage of the 13th amendment in late 1865.

As I'm sure you're aware, the E.P. "freed" slaves in territory under the control of the CSA. And I think we all know what a calculated political tool the E.P. was. That really doesn't have anything to do with the price of tea in China, though.

...

I agree that states rights remains an important political concept. I'm a fan, actually. This has been reinforced of late, since the "red" states have been throwing their weight around in the Federal gummint.

The flag of the South is really the flag of the ideal of personal freedom.

Sorry, that remains laugh-out-loud funny.

-Arrian

[Zkribbler]

The use of symbolic "speech" causes much confusion.

People who fly the Confederate flag mean it to represent personal freedoms.
Opponents of the flying of the Confederate flag see it as a symbol of slavery.

It's like flag burning in America:
Those who burn the flag mean it to stand for a protest of America falling short of its promised freedoms.
Opponents of flag burning see it as an attack on America's ideal of freedom.

[Patroklos]

What does the military think of treason, again?

Since we are disproportionately Southern, you won't get the answer you think, troll

[Varwnos]

I like the CSA flag

[lord of the mark]

Originally posted by Patroklos


Since we are disproportionately Southern, you won't get the answer you think, troll

I bet quite a few of the southerners in the US armed forces dislike the CSA battle flag more than most northerners do.

[lord of the mark]

Originally posted by Zkribbler
The use of symbolic "speech" causes much confusion.

People who fly the Confederate flag mean it to represent personal freedoms.


Those who burn the flag mean it to stand for a protest of America falling short of its promised freedoms.

I dont think either of the above statements is close to universally true.

[lord of the mark]

"The flag of the South is really the flag of the ideal of personal freedom.
"


Indeed. Cause the only flag all Southern states officially have in common, is the Stars and Stripes.


The Confederate battle flag is NOT the flag of the South.

I say that as a proud citizen of the Commonwealth of Virginia.