Every advance in the history of the world is a result of black people

[Kidlicious]

Originally posted by Barnabas
I agree with this

" It's projecting a bunch of American problems back on a civilization that long since ceased to be, and thus distorting it"

Ah the black people didn't really cause the problems.

[Barnabas]

Native americans all descend from a small number ( a few thousands) of siberian artic hunters who crossed the bering strait 10 thousand years ago, and they have a similar skin tone no matter their lattitude, they are different from africans who have lived a much much longer time at that lattitude, and have more genetic diversity.

[Kidlicious]

Originally posted by DinoDoc
Except it doesn't seem to be a widely held view among Egyptologists. (They don't exactly believe they were white either.) So what would be the point of telling someone a "fact" simply to make themselves feel better in the absence of real evidence.

Dude, it's history. It's not physics. Facts are a little different.

[DinoDoc]

Originally posted by Kidicious
Dude, it's history. It's not physics. Facts are a little different.

Does that entitle you to lie to your students, Kid?

[Arrian]

Why is considering mixed people black racists?

What? I didn't say it is. The "back of the bus" stuff is, and that coincided with the "one drop" stuff in term of US history.

Anyway, the point is that some people want to say that Egyptians weren't black because they had mixed blood. I don't really care, but it seems also acceptable to say that they were black since they had some black blood. I don't see what the problem is with that.

On this we largely agree, except I wouldn't classify them as either white or black (though black is probably closer). How's brown work for ya?

He's clearly not. You are missing something for sure. I wonder how you get things so wrong sometimes.

They damn sure wasnt lilly white like you had to be in the time that the debate started

What. The. ****. Now I'm irritated. Find where I said any such thing. Find it and quote it.

It really does seem like the most plausable answer to me that they were mostly black. I don't really think it's unreasonable to think so. Do you really?

It all comes down to what is "black" right? They certainly weren't white. Where they black in a sub-saharan sense? I dunno about that.

Basically this comes back to my main point: we're projecting our current racial classifications back on an ancient civ.

-Arrian

[Kidlicious]

Originally posted by DinoDoc
Does that entitle you to lie to your students, Kid?

I did not lie to my students. In fact, I never told them that Egyptians were white or black. I'm sure most of them are under the impression that they were black however. I don't see any problem with that because there is no proof that they were white. In fact, it is much more likely that they were mostly black.

[lord of the mark]

Originally posted by Arrian


I'm not convinced it's FACT. It's a theory, and it's pretty clearly politically driven.

If it is a fact, fine, but I'm wary of the agenda, even if the agenda is a response to an earlier agenda (that also projected stuff back on an ancient civ and distorted it).

-Arrian

Next time Im at a good enough museum, I'll recheck. Look at the pic on the wiki page that I think someone else here cited - with the Black nubian, the light syriann, and the brown egyptian. If the last guy is not as dark as the average Afro american, hes reasonably close, i think.

[Patroklos]

Stangely white people usually don't even see her blackness, but black people do.

How is this strange, becuase this debunks your assumption that white people would instantly recognize and judge her?

Anyway, the point is that some people want to say that Egyptians weren't black because they had mixed blood. I don't really care, but it seems also acceptable to say that they were black since they had some black blood. I don't see what the problem is with that.

By the same logic, it is equally acceptable to say the opposite. However, back to the original topic, how can people primarily from equatoral West Africa claim some link to Egypt? "Black" is a stupid term anyways, there are hundreds of ethnicities encompassed, most with zero links.

He's clearly not. You are missing something for sure. I wonder how you get things so wrong sometimes.

Between your source and Arrian's, I will go with his as it doesn't look like it came from a Mao worship protest.

They damn sure wasnt lilly white like you had to be in the time that the debate started.

Please provide a quote of ANYONE saying this.

It really does seem like the most plausable answer to me that they were mostly black. I don't really think it's unreasonable to think so. Do you really?

Actually, that position makes about zero sence, as almost everyone here has been schooling you on for two days now.

[Kidlicious]

Originally posted by Arrian
It all comes down to what is "black" right? They certainly weren't white. Where they black in a sub-saharan sense? I dunno about that.

Basically this comes back to my main point: we're projecting our current racial classifications back on an ancient civ.

If they want to project racial classifications onto Egypt what the hell is it to you? That's what I don't get. They had black blood, that should be enough. We don't really know how much for sure. What I don't understand is where you get off telling people who to call their ancestors.

[lord of the mark]

Originally posted by Arrian


Basically this comes back to my main point: we're projecting our current racial classifications back on an ancient civ.

-Arrian

and I think the question is, if we dont do this, are we genuinely leaving folks with the understanding that race is an artificial construct, or are we leaving them with the idea that race exists, and that the Egyptians were white, and "blacks" didnt create anything.

[Arrian]

Ah, I get it now. I disputed that in US grade school, Egyptian history is taught as "the history of blacks" which is what Kid said.

I told VJ not to worry, that it wasn't like that. In fact, of course, I meant it wasn't like that when I went to school in the 80s and early 90s.

What I left unsaid is that it was taught as ancient history, and there was no racial element to it, at least none that I can recall. This apparently made Kid think that I was saying Egyptians were white or something.

-Arrian

[Barnabas]

Syrian, Nubian, Libyan, and Egyptian



Libyan, Nubian, Syrian, Shasu Bedouin, and Hittite

http://images.google.com.ar/images?q=nubian+syrian+egyptian&svnum=10&um=1&hl=es&rls=GGLG%2CGGLG%3A2006-14%2CGGLG%3Aes

[Arrian]

What I don't understand is where you get off telling people who to call their ancestors.

You know what? If you want to believe that ancient Egyptians are your ancestors, go right ahead. You're most likely wrong (not b/c they weren't black, but for other reasons), but hey, it's a free country.

-Arrian

[Arrian]

Originally posted by lord of the mark

and I think the question is, if we dont do this, are we genuinely leaving folks with the understanding that race is an artificial construct, or are we leaving them with the idea that race exists, and that the Egyptians were white, and "blacks" didnt create anything.

Sigh.

Hopefully the former, of course.

-Arrian

[Patroklos]

I told VJ not to worry, that it wasn't like that. In fact, of course, I meant it wasn't like that when I went to school in the 80s and early 90s.

Wasn't like that for me either, but apparently we manufactured some feel good history so people could feel good about their race rather than their culture.

Because obviously without any Irish historical achievements I am not able to connect. How do you think it makes me feel when the only mention of my heritage is a potato famine and the IRA.