Every advance in the history of the world is a result of black people

[Kidlicious]

Originally posted by Patroklos


How is Egyptian history not caucasion history? Have you learned nothing from this thread?

I'm okay with black students not learning about WWI so they could learn more about Egypt. Maybe they added something in about irrigation systems, YIPPIE!

Why do you have to be so confrontational? I was halfway joking. I suppose it is different depending on the state/school district.

[Arrian]

What if your students ask you to teach them what people like them have done in history? Come Arrian. It's hard enough to get these kids to connect. You want to make it harder. And it's good for them to see that people like them have done important things.
...
All the kids are taught the same thing.

I must have misunderstood what you were saying about the curriculum, then. It really sounded like you were saying that there were two (or more) seperate lines of history curriculum...

If I'm the history teacher and my class asks me to teach them more about what people "like them" did in the past, I'd certainly make the effort to accomodate them if possible, either in class or after class, so long as it didn't totally disrupt the curriculum.

-Arrian

[Kidlicious]

Originally posted by Arrian


Yes, it's true, I am.

Unless I'm mistaken, however, what you describe is not what Kid has described.

-Arrian

Why isn't it the same? The only difference is my students were mostly hispanic.

[Patroklos]

What if your students ask you to teach them what people like them have done in history? Come Arrian. It's hard enough to get these kids to connect. You want to make it harder. And it's good for them to see that people like them have done important things.

I sometimes ask my math teachers to teach me Spanish, and my Spanish teachers to teach me Biology.

School is there to teach what you need, not what you want.

[Arrian]

see this bugs me. Cmon, man, kids living in a place where there are white and black and "mixed" kids sitting side by side, in some more or less middle class suburb, dont really need any self esteem sh*t anyway. Teach em all about inner asia, whatever. The reality, man, is that there are hundreds of thousands of kids in places like Dee Cee, and Detroit, and even New Haven, in almost all black schools, in almost all black areas, who are totally tuned out, and whom we are LOSING, losing now, and thats where this sh*t maybe, maybe, comes in and matters. Go down and tell them about mixed race kids and half elves while they tell you about their reality.

I was following right until the last sentence. Then I "tuned out" and said "**** you."

-Arrian

[Patroklos]

Why do you have to be so confrontational? I was halfway joking. I suppose it is different depending on the state/school district.

I can't always tell when your serious nor not. But worry not, I appreciate this thread and your contributions because it is getting me throught the work day.

[Arrian]

Originally posted by Kidicious


Why isn't it the same? The only difference is my students were mostly hispanic.

I was mistaken, as I said above.

-Arrian

[lord of the mark]

Originally posted by Patroklos

School is there to teach what you need, not what you want.

what does someone whos gonna drop out and get into trouble with the law, and maybe get rehabbed and end up doing unskilled or semiskilled labor need out of a history class, anyway? Whatever will keep them off that path, Id think.

[Kidlicious]

Originally posted by Arrian
I must have misunderstood what you were saying about the curriculum, then. It really sounded like you were saying that there were two (or more) seperate lines of history curriculum...

No. In world history you teach Western, Chinese, Meso-American, Egyptian/Other African, and I think Native American. The teacher has so room to emphasize. He can cover some things fast or slow as long as the standards are met.

[Barnabas]

Originally posted by lord of the mark
"By the way, how do they decide which students get stuffed into which categories nowadays? Do mixed kids get to pick between the "white" and "black" curriculum, like the half elves can choose between being human or elven? Sorry, couldn't resist the Tolkien reference."

see this bugs me. Cmon, man, kids living in a place where there are white and black and "mixed" kids sitting side by side, in some more or less middle class suburb, dont really need any self esteem sh*t anyway. Teach em all about inner asia, whatever. The reality, man, is that there are hundreds of thousands of kids in places like Dee Cee, and Detroit, and even New Haven, in almost all black schools, in almost all black areas, who are totally tuned out, and whom we are LOSING, losing now, and thats where this sh*t maybe, maybe, comes in and matters. Go down and tell them about mixed race kids and half elves while they tell you about their reality.

I finally understood the problematic, now I kinda agree with you.

Here we have 5 years of history in high school, the first year we see the ancient world + mayas aztecs incas, the second the middle ages till the discovery of america, the third conquest of america and colonial history + whatever happens in europe (7 years war for example), the fouth years we see independece of the americaan countries and the XIX century, creation of the nation states, the fifth years the same, and we only get to see the world wars of the XX century. I remember the last thing we saw was the oil crisis in the 70´s.

Half of the history we study is actually history of Spain

[Patroklos]

what does someone whos gonna drop out and get into trouble with the law, and maybe get rehabbed and end up doing unskilled or semiskilled labor need out of a history class, anyway? Whatever will keep them off that path, Id think.

Personal accountability. We provide the opportunity (the government, as a favor, not a right), it is up to the individual to take it.

[lord of the mark]

Originally posted by Arrian


I was following right until the last sentence. Then I "tuned out" and said "**** you."

-Arrian

Well thats the part that bugged me.

Seemed a kinda flippant response to a dire reality.

Look man, im no huge fan of all the loony afrocentrists, certainly not of the prof Jeffries, but all this nice suburban "lets all be color blind, color doesnt matter any more" bugs me, and what I read as a flippant reference to a fairly dire problem bugged me more.

Look, we know where having a teacher emphasize black history will help, and where it wont. I dont think its all that complicated.

[lord of the mark]

Originally posted by Patroklos


Personal accountability. We provide the opportunity (the government, as a favor, not a right), it is up to the individual to take it.

Youre a history teacher in a classroom. Teaching someone who invented the steam engine aint gonna add to no opportunity, or no accountability. Teaching them about dark pharoahs, or George W Carver, or whatever, just MIGHT let them think that its worth try to grab the opportunity, even though their environment tells them it isnt.

[Kidlicious]

Here's the CA standards for 7th grade World History. I was a bit off. Japan is included and Islam. Take a look if you like.
CA Standards

World History and Geography: Medieval and Early Modern Times

7.1 Students analyze the causes and effects of the vast expansion and ultimate disintegration of the Roman Empire.

7.2 Students analyze the geographic, political, economic, religious, and social structures of the civilizations of Islam in the Middle Ages.

7.3 Students analyze the geographic, political, economic, religious, and social structures of the civilizations of China in the Middle Ages.

7.4 Students analyze the geographic, political, economic, religious, and social structures of the sub-Saharan civilizations of Ghana and Mali in Medieval Africa.

7.5 Students analyze the geographic, political, economic, religious, and social structures of the civilizations of Medieval Japan.

7.6 Students analyze the geographic, political, economic, religious, and social structures of the civilizations of Medieval Europe.

7.7 Students compare and contrast the geographic, political, economic, religious, and social structures of the Meso-American and Andean civilizations.

7.8 Students analyze the origins, accomplishments, and geographic diffusion of the Renaissance.

7.9 Students analyze the historical developments of the Reformation.

7.10 Students analyze the historical developments of the Scientific Revolution and its lasting effect on religious, political, and cultural institutions.

7.11 Students analyze political and economic change in the sixteenth, seventeenth, and eighteenth centuries (the Age of Exploration, the Enlightenment, and the Age of Reason).


CA Standards

edit: I cut out the specifics. You can see them at the website.

[Arrian]

Seemed a kinda flippant response to a dire reality.

Humor, I find, can be useful in the face of "dire reality." Or lengthy internet debates.

I find it amusing, btw, that you, a fellow Tolkien fan, got so irritated about a joke I made referencing half-elves. That's pretty funny.

but all this nice suburban "lets all be color blind, color doesnt matter any more" bugs me

"Let's all be colorblind" bugs you?

"Color doesn't matter anymore" is something else - that's not the case, unfortunately. But you disagree with the idea of trying to be colorblind? Do explain.

-Arrian