Evil Estonians Crack Down on Helpless Russian Minority

[Saras]

Originally posted by Pekka
GEstapo? Did you see the videos? If you want gestapo, why don't you watch gay parade in moscow, then you really see some action. We didn't hear a lot of peopel complainign about that.

But that aside, Estonian embassador was physically attacked in Moscow, our embassy was egged (umm, why?) and the car of the Swedish embassador was attacked.

Are you seriously telling me that these naz.. I mean nashi kids aren't nothing but nationalists, searching for new identity and hoping some small countries will kind of pay for it?

Exactly. Serb, stop being ridiculous and grow up to face the facts.

[Pekka]

This is also not a statement against Russian minority in Estonia. Maybe more could be done to integrate some of the people. Maybe, just maybe there is some anger towards Russians in some people and they would be openly bigoted, maybe some even secretly like the fact that this minority isn't updated with the Estonia of today as much as it could.

But that is still secondary to this issue as of now. Estonia is definitely not a fascist country, it never really was, and the statue first of all is their own problem. Even if it represent a symbol for the victory against the real fascists, it also represents a symbol of oppression to a lot of Estonians. So it still should be a non-issue to Russia. The only way I can see people really getting upset is if the buried soldiers under that place were somehow treated unproperly.

When you match this against hostilities around embassies IN Moscow, and not only Estonian embassy I'd like to add, attack against an embassador, denial of service attacks against official Estonian websites, false information about the statue on state media, the call for the government to resign, I mean.. those are actually hostile acts. Over what? A statue that was relocated to possible a better place?

Since when did we start giving care for people who smash shops and rob them, it was an excuse for some young folks to riot, that is it.

People should relax and stop this idiocy. The provocation is very much one-sided at this point. It's kind of difficult to play the victim when the other side is getting ALL the _actual_ attacks.

It's not even about the Russian minority in Estonia. It's about Russia testing what will happen with little pushing, how will the new EU react, will NATO say anything, should Estonia be a push over, what about other nations. If Estonia should submit, I'm expecting similar problems in Latvia very soon.

[Saras]

Originally posted by Pekka
This is also not a statement against Russian minority in Estonia. Maybe more could be done to integrate some of the people. Maybe, just maybe there is some anger towards Russians in some people and they would be openly bigoted, maybe some even secretly like the fact that this minority isn't updated with the Estonia of today as much as it could.

Amen brother pekka. But this whole ****up sets everything back ages and ages. Whatever good will there was in Estonia towards Russia is gone.

[lord of the mark]

http://www.epl.ee/artikkel/384207

wow, just wow. What will the EU do?

[Saras]

Originally posted by lord of the mark

http://www.epl.ee/artikkel/384207

wow, just wow. What will the EU do?

Nothing of substance.

[Pekka]

Yeah, and you can see the attitude. Official said that what is happening in Moscow (embassy) is Estonia's problem. That's not only against all the agreements with the idea of embassies and embassadors, that's saying to your face we don't care about the situation there.

Every little second that goes by, the statue thign seems smaller and smaller and a non-issue.

I'll repeat my question, why do small nations have to pay for big nation's identity problems? How much do you have to spin to think you're the victim here???!!!!

And how the hell would one justify or even explain attacks against the embassies of Sweden and Finland? Is someone even bold enough to say that if Putin wanted to end this thing that he couldn't do anything to stop it? Tell Estonia how they can stop it. It's not like they're doing anything right now, and it's not like they did anything that wasn't theirs to decide or to do.

Let's turn this thing upside down, what if this happened in russia and Estonia did this? HMmhh I wonder??! One has to be absolutely blind not to realize this has nothing to do with the statue or the minority in Estonia. Nothing what so ever. One has to also be blind to not understand, that these claims are not meant for Estonians or others, these are meant for domestic people, that is, it is enough if your own people believe it.

[Pekka]

EU will not do anything, and that's what Russia really wanted to test.

Don't get me wrong. THis won't escalate to anything big and dangerous. Russia does not want war and neither does anyone else for that matter. It's just testing the responses. Kind of like flying in the airspace of others to see how fast they respond.

So, I'd say these hostilities are really not real and Russia is really not this hostile against Estonia.

[BeBMan]

There will probably be a lot of talk behind closed doors and maybe an end which allows all sides to save face, which isn't as spectacular as an immediate DOW on Russia but overall probably not that bad.

[Pekka]

bebro, well, like I said earlier, I don't think the goal of Russia is to start real hostilities. Just to see reactions. I don't even believe them to be hostile against Estonia. It's just some testing and giving mental uplift so locals, especially some of these youth organizations, give them some pride with this thing. That's all I think.

I mean, Putin hasn't said much, neither has the presidents of these countries. Mostly just middlemen throwing words around. SO when the time is right, the situation will be normalized.

[Saras]

Pekka, you should see the list of Russians' most hated countries. Estonia was #2 already a while ago, they're definitely #1 now.

[lord of the mark]

Originally posted by BeBro
There will probably be a lot of talk behind closed doors and maybe an end which allows all sides to save face, which isn't as spectacular as an immediate DOW on Russia but overall probably not that bad.

"Meanwhile Russia's foreign ministry blamed Estonia for the disturbances.

"All the blame for what is happening around the Estonian embassy lies fully on the Estonian side, which took the decision to move the monument," ministry spokesman Mikhail Kamynin said, quoted by RIA Novosti."


Isnt that a breathtaking step away from the responsibility to protect embassies?

And theres plenty of steps between talking behind closed doors, and DOWing. The EU of all people, should know that.

[BeBMan]

Pekka: Yeah, I don't think they want real hostilities either, just it's has been so emotional in recent days that sometimes things could spin out of control. Just imagine those "demonstrators" around the embasyy would have done real harm to Estonian officials.....and my inbuilt sense for tinfoilhatism wonders why this stuff comes soon after the debate between NATO and Russia about the planned missile defense.....

[BeBMan]

[SIZE=1] Originally posted by lord of the mark
And theres plenty of steps between talking behind closed doors, and DOWing. The EU of all people, should know that.

Sure

But IMO it's usually not done from 0 to 100. Increased reaction in smaller steps give you the chance to resolve the prob easier at any time. Escalating fully from the beginning means you don't have anything left to do (except the things nobody wants to do) sooner.

[lord of the mark]

Originally posted by BeBro


Sure

But IMO it's usually not done from 0 to 100. Increased reaction in smaller steps give you the chance to resolve the prob easier at any time. Escalating fully from the beginning means you don't have anything left to do (except the things nobody wants to do) sooner.

lets see theirs the Estonian embassy, the attacks on Finnish and Swedish diplo personnel, theres Estonian claims of evidence of Russia organizing the riots in Tallinn, theres Estonian claims of cyber attacks from Russian govt IP addresses, theres now economic measures being taken. It sure seems like ONE side is willing to take several small steps fairly quickly. If the other side doesnt, it will be a clear statement to all concerned which side to be afraid of, and which side is paper promises and hot air.

[Pekka]

No no, our personnel wasn't¨directly attack, just the property. These were most likely some kids who got the place wrong or were just doing stuff. Estonians were, and they have been now evacuated.