Evil Estonians Crack Down on Helpless Russian Minority

[Serb]

Originally posted by TheStinger
So the estonians should be grateful for one murderous dictatorship taking over their country from another muredrous dictatorship

So the Russians, whose country lost over 26 million people in WW2 and whom destroyed 2/3 of the nazi war machine, should remain silent when Estonians treat Soviet war veterans as crap, desacre monuments dedicated to vicitms of nazism, insult the memory of fallen in war vs. nazism, re-writing the history and at the same time glorifying nazi criminals?

[Serb]

Originally posted by lord of the mark


example please.

I admit it was an exaggeration.

[Serb]

Originally posted by Kuken
Having been to Tallinn and seen the Bronze Soldier several times, I can testify to the crappiness of the original location. Not a nice place for a grave.. It's basically a traffic island and next to one of the busiest roads.

Once again, I wouldn't protest had they relocated the monument and re-buried the corpses PROPERLY - with military honours and no isults and threats.

If only that was why it was moved......

Exactly. I've predicted these riots a couple of years ago. It was pretty clear that discriminating neo-nazi policy of Estonian government sooner or later will lead to protest. The bronze soldier issue was a limit break.

[Serb]

Originally posted by Pekka
GEstapo? Did you see the videos? If you want gestapo, why don't you watch gay parade in moscow, then you really see some action. We didn't hear a lot of peopel complainign about that.

I'm not an expert in gay porn or any actions associated with gays. You should ask Asher he is a real pro in that matter.

But that aside, Estonian embassador was physically attacked in Moscow, our embassy was egged (umm, why?) and the car of the Swedish embassador was attacked.

Link.

Are you seriously telling me that these naz.. I mean nashi kids aren't nothing but nationalists, searching for new identity and hoping some small countries will kind of pay for it?

They are protesters. What's the matter with you? You think people have no right to pretest? What about democracy the freedom of meetings and freedom to express your views?

And if you watn to talk about soldiers and their graves, our graves have been pretty much bulldozed in Karelia as well,in much worse ways than this Estonia case. So... I suggest people just cool down and look at the facts, and the facts are that Russia is again playing a victim, spreading lies in state media and provoking on purpose.

What lies?
Russia is provoking? remind me who started this mess? Russia? Don't make me laugh.

And if you want fascists, I put my two bucks on these nashi kids, I think they're the bright future of what should have been stopped when there was a chance.

Holy crap. They are protesting the actions of the regime, which is famous for rehabilitation and glorification of nazism. And you call THEM nazi?
Indeed western mass media is the most devastating weapon of mass destruction.

[Serb]

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[Serb]

Originally posted by Pekka There's just NO WAY these actions coudl be justified, Russia has provoked on all levels now, national as well as ground roots levels, adn somehow this relocation of a statue is still some kind of an excuse? It was relocated and it was done properly, period.

Properly?
Oh my, if not riots the monument would just dissapeared. And corpses of dead soldiers are still in hands of Estonian grave diggers. Their fate is still uncertain, but something tells me there will be no military honours and more or less civilized reburial.

[Solver]

Their fate is still uncertain

Funny you should say that, the Estonian MoD stated (today, I think) what will happen with the remains.

[Serb]

Originally posted by Pekka
This is also not a statement against Russian minority in Estonia. Maybe more could be done to integrate some of the people. Maybe, just maybe there is some anger towards Russians in some people and they would be openly bigoted, maybe some even secretly like the fact that this minority isn't updated with the Estonia of today as much as it could.

Maybe, maybe sometimes, baby... blah-blah-blah... the Estonian regime treats 1/3 of Estonian population as a second-grade humans. This issue over the Bronze soldier was a limit break for Russian-speaking minority. Period.

But that is still secondary to this issue as of now. Estonia is definitely not a fascist country, it never really was, and the statue first of all is their own problem. Even if it represent a symbol for the victory against the real fascists, it also represents a symbol of oppression to a lot of Estonians. So it still should be a non-issue to Russia.

Wrong. Estonia is a fascist country now and certainly was a fascist country in the last century. And the recent riots are not secondary. These riots are the logical result of the attitude of Estonian government to the Russian-speaking minority. And desecration of monuments and Russian soldiers graves is the issue to Russia, as well as discrimination of ethnic Russians in Estonia.

The only way I can see people really getting upset is if the buried soldiers under that place were somehow treated unproperly.

Somehow, my ass. They've made a bus stop over their graves and called it a "reconstruction". Alike "relocation" could have happen with the monument, if not the riots.

When you match this against hostilities around embassies IN Moscow, and not only Estonian embassy I'd like to add, attack against an embassador, denial of service attacks against official Estonian websites, false information about the statue on state media, the call for the government to resign, I mean.. those are actually hostile acts.

1) What hostilities? The people don't have a right to protest?
2) What had happened with the embassador? Was she beaten by police, like protesters in Tallin? Is she in hospital or in morgue, like one of the tallin protestors? She held tied on cold cement floor in one of Moscow's cargo terminals?
3) Do you really believe that persons who have enough brains to crack the official Estonian government sites, are not smart enough to understand that their IP could be tracked and therefore understand that using of computers located in Kremlin is not a good idea? This Estonian story about kremlin hackers is no more than a pile of BS.
4) What false information about the statue on state media? Facts, please.
5) The citizens of Tallin call for the Estonian PM to resign, not Lord God Putin or Russian media.

Over what? A statue that was relocated to possible a better place?

Nope. You still don't realise the nature of the conflict. Re-read my posts.

Since when did we start giving care for people who smash shops and rob them, it was an excuse for some young folks to riot, that is it.

People should relax and stop this idiocy. The provocation is very much one-sided at this point. It's kind of difficult to play the victim when the other side is getting ALL the _actual_ attacks.

Yep. It was a provocation vs. Russia, but first of all it was a provocation vs. the Russian-speaking minority of Estonia.

It's not even about the Russian minority in Estonia. It's about Russia testing what will happen with little pushing, how will the new EU react, will NATO say anything, should Estonia be a push over, what about other nations. If Estonia should submit, I'm expecting similar problems in Latvia very soon.

Blah-blah-blah.
It's all about Estonia acting like a neo-nazi state. Period.

[Serb]

Originally posted by Solver

Their fate is still uncertain

Funny you should say that, the Estonian MoD stated (today, I think) what will happen with the remains.

I slept half of the day. Care to share a link? (Not that I believe a single word of any Estonian official).

[Serb]

Originally posted by Saras


Amen brother pekka. But this whole ****up sets everything back ages and ages. Whatever good will there was in Estonia towards Russia is gone.

Wow! There was a good will in Estonia towards Russia? I suppose by this you mean they didn't shot Russians on sight (well, at least not always)?

[Heresson]

Russia cut-off Estonia from coal, oil and oil products. Of course, it has NOTHING to do with current events, they say - the railroads are being repaired

Just as when Poles, not Russians, bought oil refinery in Lithuania, all of a sudden oil pipe to it needed repairment as well, and coincidentally great fire destroyed that refinery...

[Serb]

Originally posted by Saras
Pekka, you should see the list of Russians' most hated countries. Estonia was #2 already a while ago, they're definitely #1 now.

BS. In Russian list neither Estonia or Finland (wtf? who hates Finland in Russia? We only hate Finns the day when they beat us at Olympic hockey) are even close to the beacon of democracy (US of A, I mean).

[Heresson]

You do not hate Poland, do You...

Russian hate-list

1) "blacks" - Caucasians (unofficial and not directed against a specific state, though lately Georgia is teh evil)
2) America (just a tradition)
3) Latvia - fascists
4) Poland - fascists
4,5) western Ukrainians - fascists
5) Estonia - fascists
6) Lithuania - fascists

[Serb]

Originally posted by Heresson
Russia cut-off Estonia from coal, oil and oil products. Of course, it has NOTHING to do with current events, they say - the railroads are being repaired

Really? Damn! I thought our leadership don't have balls for that.

Just as when Poles, not Russians, bought oil refinery in Lithuania, all of a sudden oil pipe to it needed repairment as well, and coincidentally great fire destroyed that refinery...

Sh!t happens.

[Heresson]

Originally posted by Serb

Really? Damn! I thought our leadership don't have balls for that.

officially it was the state railway company, not the gouverment, that did that.