condom questions

[Spec]

What does this have to do with condoms and B etor being a whore?

Spec

[MichaeltheGreat]

Originally posted by Ben Kenobi
So you have a problem with large families that go to church together?

That's not even real straw in that strawman.

Yes I believe that men and women are equal and that they have different roles and expectations for one another.

Who defines the roles and expectations for the women, in the context of an institution which by its own arbitrary rules (Dogma my ass, that was my final straw with the Church) is exclusively controlled by men?

I don't see why it's so wrong to say that women have expectations for the men that they marry as the men do of their wives.

In general, my experience has been that women have expectations of their boyfriends/husbands (and men with girlfriends/wives) whether they're "ideal" Catholics, fallen/dissenting Catholics, liberal atheists, Evangelical wingnuts, Hindus, Moslems, or pretty much anything you want to pick. It's not the presence or absence (rare to non-existent) of expectations. It's whose expectations are expressed as an "ideal" and conditioned from birth.

How you get 'barefoot' and 'pregnant' from this I am uncertain. If a woman wants to get married and have lots of kids and stay home with them why shouldn't she do so?

Are you really this disingenuous, or just in bad form today? Perhaps you haven't spent much time on the subject of Catholic guilt, or hung around too many multi-generational, extended Irish Catholic or Italian Catholic or Mexican or Polish or Portagee Catholic families?

There's "what you want" when you are raised with (practically, not semantically) unconditional support and given a full range of choices. I've known women raised in such ways (radical though it is) who wanted to be stay at home mommies.

Then again, there's "what you want" when you're raised from birth where the ideal is "stay at home, obey your husband and be fruitful and multiply, because that is the role God has chosen for you, as we learn from the Church. But if you really want to disappoint God and your mother and your father and your blah blah blah."

Your "ideal" is "ideal" for those who have the full range of choices and freely seek it. It isn't necessarily that "ideal" for those who are pressured by family, culture and religion to accept it.

[MichaeltheGreat]

Originally posted by Spec
What does this have to do with condoms and B etor being a whore?

Spec

Maybe we can integrate a discussion of Humanae Vitae into it? Or just allow that the majority of the geeks here don't collectively have enough experience with sex to have several hundred posts in a thread about condoms anyway, so this thread has obviously been threadjacked long ago?

Now all we need is Horsie to come by and give the Threadjacker's Appreciation Society^TM seal of approval.

[Wycoff]

Condoms

IMO, they take away 95% of the fun. I used them as infrequently as possible. That meant that I could only have sex with girls who I knew to be disease free (and thus I couldn't randomly hook-up unless I wanted to wear a condom), but it was worth it. Sex with a condom is not worth having in my book.

[Ben Kenobi]

MtG:

We should take this to a different thread. I can see this taking up a whole another thread.

Who defines the roles and expectations for the women, in the context of an institution which by its own arbitrary rules (Dogma my ass, that was my final straw with the Church) is exclusively controlled by men?

Their husbands, and their family. I don't believe any woman should accept a role that is contrary to her own desires. The church teaches that it is perfectly good to be unmarried as it is to be married, and those who choose not to marry or raise families are not doing any wrong. If a woman chooses to get married and accept a role as a wife and a mother, then this is her decision.

As for the role within marriage, the expectations are of her church, her family and her husband. Just as she has expectations for her husband her husband will have expectations for her.

In general, my experience has been that women have expectations of their boyfriends/husbands (and men with girlfriends/wives) whether they're "ideal" Catholics, fallen/dissenting Catholics, liberal atheists, Evangelical wingnuts, Hindus, Moslems, or pretty much anything you want to pick. It's not the presence or absence (rare to non-existent) of expectations. It's whose expectations are expressed as an "ideal" and conditioned from birth.

Ah. I see the conflict here. Let me be clear here. 'Ideal' in the sense that you have an ideal table or an ideal chair. The ideal Catholic lifestyle is not present in reality, but it gives a good clue as to what I believe and what I am looking for.

I did not mean to say anything more then this, that those who are not Catholic would find such a lifestyle appealing. Even those who are Catholic who choose other lives such as ministries are doing what is right. What I meant is that this is the ideal Catholic lifestyle in my own understanding.

Are you really this disingenuous, or just in bad form today? Perhaps you haven't spent much time on the subject of Catholic guilt, or hung around too many multi-generational, extended Irish Catholic or Italian Catholic or Mexican or Polish or Portagee Catholic families?

There's "what you want" when you are raised with (practically, not semantically) unconditional support and given a full range of choices. I've known women raised in such ways (radical though it is) who wanted to be stay at home mommies.

Yes, so do I. This is the group that I had in mind, the women who even though they have the choice of a career and an independent life have chosen to have a large family and raise their kids.

Then again, there's "what you want" when you're raised from birth where the ideal is "stay at home, obey your husband and be fruitful and multiply, because that is the role God has chosen for you, as we learn from the Church. But if you really want to disappoint God and your mother and your father and your blah blah blah."

Your "ideal" is "ideal" for those who have the full range of choices and freely seek it. It isn't necessarily that "ideal" for those who are pressured by family, culture and religion to accept it.

Well I am sorry for not being more clear. Those who have been raised Catholic should understand that it is good for them not to marry. Marriage and children and family should always be the decision of the woman to enter into this life.

[Drogue]

Originally posted by Ben Kenobi
We should take this to a different thread. I can see this taking up a whole another thread.

I can see that too. A new thread seems to be called for. Please make one and respond there

[b etor]

Originally posted by Flubber

B etor

THat was a JOKE. Please PLEASE stop sending me private messages.

oh darn. now everyone knows

Originally posted by Ben Kenobi
MtG:

We should take this to a different thread. I can see this taking up a whole another thread.

[Elok]

This thread needs some topical humor. Hey, why does Thor always use a condom?

Spoiler:

He's afraid of catching the thunder-clap!

Nyuknyuknyuk!

[Dr Strangelove]

Originally posted by MRT144


be a lutheran aka recovering catholic

Better yet, become an Episcopalian and be all that a Catholic can be. Heck, you might even wind up being the head honcho of the whole church. That's right, a woman can become presiding bishop. We're working on the Archbishop thing. We're pretty confident that the English will eventually knuckle under.

[b etor]

NO MORE RELIGION TALK IN THIS THREAD! ughh.

please? i tire of seeing these arguments.

[MichaeltheGreat]

Originally posted by b etor

Just because Ben doesn't want to threadjack an otherwise inane thread doesn't mean I'll be so nice.

[MichaeltheGreat]

Originally posted by Ben Kenobi
MtG:

We should take this to a different thread. I can see this taking up a whole another thread.

I may not be replying to anything for a few days. Had a tooth explode from under an old filling that popped out. Right now, it feels like I got shot in the lower face, so it's off to the dentist/oral surgeon as soon as I can get them off their asses.

[b etor]

that's how i feel too! only nothing exploded in my mouth.
how did it explode?!? take a picture!!

[Apocalypse]

MTG's last post belongs in the wisdom tooth thread.

[Colonâ„¢]

I walked completely drugged to home from the hospital after I got my wisdom teeth pulled. Made me realise what kind of a strong person I am.