Leftist youth groups conduct street battles with police in Copenhagen

[Kidlicious]

Originally posted by Arrian


What is my prejudice, pray tell?

I judged based on the facts available, which are pretty damning.

That's what I did when I formed the judgement of you being prejudice.

Prejudice means I was against them before reading anything, which is not so.

I think that's exactly what you did. And I think that to say otherwise you are completely full of **** and I am offended that you would expect me to believe otherwise.

If this had been a story of a youth group being thrown out of their building so it could be given over to a nutty fundy group and the youth group had not been violent about it and babbled endlessly about what they *demanded* from the government, I probably would've backed THEM.

-Arrian

So if someone stand up politically you just call them spoiled if you don't agree with it, and you expect me to believe that you are not prejudice towards them.

[Kidlicious]

Originally posted by Flubber


JUst curious but WHERE do you speak? Are you talking about here or are anadvocate that speaks at human rights hearings or to the media etc etc. Or do you mean "speaking" in the sense that you join rallies and meetings and protests?

I don't just speak here.

[Arrian]

think that's exactly what you did. And I think that to say otherwise you are completely full of **** and I am offended that you would expect me to believe otherwise.

I mean no offense. You can, of course, refuse to believe me. It's always possible that I'm deluding myself, but I honestly do not believe that I came into the original thread prejudiced against youth groups. Then I read what had happened, and made a judgment.

Like I said, had the facts been different I might have sided with the youth group. I've no love of fundies, and I'm generally ok with hippies. Dude, I'm a Phish fan.

So if someone stand up politically you just call them spoiled if you don't agree with it, and you expect me to believe that you are not prejudice towards them.

Um, no. If someone stands up politically and they have a good argument, I agree with them. If I disagree with them, I don't necessarily call them spoiled. If, however, they act like spoiled brats, I will say so. And that's what I see here, after reading the accounts of what happened (accounts by the media, the youth group, and the fundies - nearly all the key sources are covered, although the court decisions would've been even better, IMO).

-Arrian

[Flubber]

Originally posted by Arrian
Incidently, does anyone else here think that maybe, just maybe, it might be in the best interest of the youths involved in this incident to experience *not* getting what they wanted just 'cause they wanted it?

Yes -- leaving aside the protesters I think children benefit from hearing "no" from time to time. I make a point of saying "no" to my 3 year old so that he learns to deal with refusal.

Sometimes he cries or throws a tantrum but he really doesn't need another truck or whatever he is on about. The tantrum will bring punishment if it continues.

I am very concerned that my children learn NOT to have a big sense of "entitlement"

[Flubber]

Originally posted by Kidicious


The same as Arrian?

I don't know all of Arrian's views. I have agreed with most of what he has said on the Denmark thing but I doubt I would agree with every word and haven't reviewed his posts closely enough to know

[Flubber]

Originally posted by Kidicious


I don't just speak here.

So where??

[Arrian]

I remember one incident from my youth... gosh I was such a brat this time...

My parents gave me a car when I was 16. It was a beat up P.O.S., but it was a (mostly) functioning automobile. It was 6 months younger than me (1977 Chevy Impala, sky blue!) and was distinctly uncool, though.

I lived in a wealthy town where kids I knew were getting brand-spanking new BMWs and ****. I also knew kids (my friends) who got '78 Oldsmobiles and '86 Chevies (the particular model, if you look it up on consumer reports, has a big warning stamp "do not buy this car" Poor Bill), but of course I focused on the havemores rather than the havelesses.

So I was a whiney little ***** about my car. I treated it like crap. What a jerk.

They held firm until the brakes crapped out. Then they got me a nice new car, so I sorta won. But I look back on it and shake my head at myself. Lots of kids would've been psyched to have my '77 Chevy...

-Arrian

[Kidlicious]

Originally posted by Arrian
Like I said, had the facts been different I might have sided with the youth group. I've no love of fundies, and I'm generally ok with hippies. Dude, I'm a Phish fan.

Dude, Phish sucks. Anyway, the first word in the thread title is "Lefties," not youths, and when you read that you experienced a physiological reaction. I find it incredible that you would stand on the side of Lefties for anything. I think that you see allies in these Fundies. Of course this is just my opinion just like you think that these people are spoiled. I'm just telling you how full of **** you seem to me right now. Hell, I'll admit that I'm prejudice. I hate Fundies and I have a tendency to support the Left too quickly. I don't get defensive about it though, because I need people to tell me when I'm full of **** and people who tend to agree with me don't do that.

[Kidlicious]

Originally posted by Flubber


So where??

everywhere. rallies, protests etc.

[Flubber]

Originally posted by Arrian





Um, no. If someone stands up politically and they have a good argument, I agree with them.

Thats my approach as well.

Originally posted by Arrian

If I disagree with them, I don't necessarily call them spoiled. If, however, they act like spoiled brats, I will say so. And that's what I see here, after reading the accounts of what happened (accounts by the media, the youth group, and the fundies - nearly all the key sources are covered, although the court decisions would've been even better, IMO).

THats what I see as well. They are not standing up for equal rights or race relations or economic disparity. They are not even standing up for the right to be meet or "be who they are". What they are demanding is a FREE building be handed over to them by the taxpayers of Copenhagen without any accountability or responsibility for themselves.

Could such a centre be a good idea? Damned if I know but thats a call for the council in Copenhagen to make. If they WANT to give a building to this group, thats their choice. I just object to the idea that the group has some sort of RIGHT to a free building . I object even more to the use of violence to protest on this issue

[Arrian]

Dude, Phish sucks.

Of course you realize, this means WAR!

Anyway, the first word in the thread title is "Lefties" and when you read that you experienced a physiological reaction. I find it incredible that you would stand on the side of Lefties for anything

Actually, I am willing to believe I had a psychological reaction to "street riots," but not lefties, because I consider myself a centrist - neither particularly lefty nor righty, and so I tend to be skeptical of either extreme.

In the context of US politics, I'm center/center-left, depending on what issues one cares most about. In Denmark, that probably makes me center-right, but I wasn't thinking about that when I opened the thread.

I think that you see allies in these Fundies.

No, I really, really don't. I can't, of course, expect you to be familiar with my positions on everything. But I assure you that I do not see these fundies (or any religious zealots for that matter) as allies. If you chose to think I'm lying, there isn't much I can do.

I'm just telling you how full of **** you seem to me right now.

Fair enough, I can occasionally be full of ****. But I don't think I am right now. :shrug: We disagree, go figure.

-Arrian

[Kidlicious]

Incidently, the Germans did not really like the Nazis, but they like the aggressiveness they showed towards the Communists. That helped the Nazis a great deal. (Godwin, blah blah blah)

[Arrian]

I don't like the nasty attitude these fundies have towards the youth group, hippies, gays, etc (nor the nasty attitude the youth group has towards... pretty much everybody else). I simply think that they were (unfortunately, perhaps) in the right, and further that the authorities reacted properly.

In fact, my original post waaaaay back in the beginning of the first thread was in support of the authorities and I don't even recall mentioning the church group.

-Arrian

[Kidlicious]

Originally posted by Flubber
They are not even standing up for the right to be meet or "be who they are".

Actually this is exactly what they are fighting for, and the Fundies are fighting to prevent that. This has NOTHING to do with rent.

[Kidlicious]

Originally posted by Arrian
I don't like the nasty attitude these fundies have towards the youth group, hippies, gays, etc (nor the nasty attitude the youth group has towards... pretty much everybody else). I simply think that they were (unfortunately, perhaps) in the right, and further that the authorities reacted properly.

In fact, my original post waaaaay back in the beginning of the first thread was in support of the authorities and I don't even recall mentioning the church group.

-Arrian

I seem to remember you saying that it didn't matter what the Fundies were doing. Now you say that you don't like it? The way it appears to me is that you really don't like the Fundies, but as long as they are attacking the left you will ignore it or say it doesn't matter.