I feel violated

[DinoDoc]

Out of interest, what is the general tax burden in Europe?

[Flubber]

Originally posted by Arrian
That being said, I don't really see how that applies to the issue of one's rent being 50% of salary. One may need to work on getting a better job, or finding a cheaper place to live, but I can understand being frustrated by that situation.

-Arrian

It only applies to the extent that a person knows the rent when they CHOOSE to sign the rental agreement. They also CHOOSE which city in which they want to live.

Close friends of mine just moved away from Calgary due to housing costs. They owned a very small house and wanted better but couldn't afford it in the city. So they moved 4 hours away to a lovely little town and bought a great property for almost the exact same price they sold their tiny place. It was a lifestyle and financial choice.

Don't get me wrong-- I find housing costs in this city way too high and they don't come close to some of the expensive cities. But housing continues to be purchased faster than it can be built and the high prices are NECESSARY to pay higher wages to workers that they are trying to attract to come here

[Grandpa Troll]

Originally posted by DinoDoc
Out of interest, what is the general tax burden in Europe?

Not a troll here but burden could be a matter of perspective.

The Govt assigns a level or percentage and yes percentages are just that

But if someone were in the above mentioned crunch where rent and groceries and taxes were closing in then there burden would be tremendous.

Just adding is all......

Gramps

[Grandpa Troll]

Originally posted by Flubber


But housing continues to be purchased faster than it can be built and the high prices are NECESSARY to pay higher wages to workers that they are trying to attract to come here

This is where the metal meets the road, workers needs higher wages to survive so the "service" or product they are involved in has to increase to meet the demand of R.O.I. for the producer.
his not only includes hourly wages but any incentives and bonus packages/compensation packages.

Like professional athletes who earn millions, who pays for this?
The owners? Not on your life. We the spectator and supporter of the endorsed products. Dont attend games, dont buy the endorsed product and you take the ever escalating price of doing professional sports and send it downward. The owners are in it for the money. Some love but mostly investment return.

Of course, someone will allways be willing to pay so it wont end.

Gramps

[DinoDoc]

Originally posted by Grandpa Troll
Not a troll here but burden could be a matter of perspective.

65% sounds like a burden to me. How about you?

[Arrian]

It only applies to the extent that a person knows the rent when they CHOOSE to sign the rental agreement. They also CHOOSE which city in which they want to live.

I understand that. Really I do.

I can imagine personal circumstances that would make moving quite difficult (moving out of a pricey market, not just moving between two apartments in the same market), however. The poorer you are, the harder that is.

-Arrian

[Grandpa Troll]

Originally posted by DinoDoc
65% sounds like a burden to me. How about you?

VERY burdensome

[Flubber]

Originally posted by Grandpa Troll


This is where the metal meets the road, workers needs higher wages to survive so the "service" or product they are involved in has to increase to meet the demand of R.O.I. for the producer.
his not only includes hourly wages but any incentives and bonus packages/compensation packages.

Like professional athletes who earn millions, who pays for this?
The owners? Not on your life. We the spectator and supporter of the endorsed products. Dont attend games, dont buy the endorsed product and you take the ever escalating price of doing professional sports and send it downward. The owners are in it for the money. Some love but mostly investment return.

Of course, someone will allways be willing to pay so it wont end.

Gramps

Exactly-- I hate that a ticket to an NHL game here is $70 for a medicore seat BUT they need that revenue to pay some players millions and the fans demand that they sign some stars.

Since EVERY single game is sold out and there are hundreds of disappointed fans who cannot get a ticket, I can't really complain about the price. Its the market.

THe big diffeerence though is that this is purely discretionary . .. even luxury type spending . . . . while housing is a necessary BUT the pent-up demand is the same

In housing it gets worse since all the workers you need to build more housing ALSO need places to stay. When they see the housing costs here, they balk and demand even higher wages to continue working here. Its a typical boomtown at the moment

[Flubber]

Originally posted by Arrian


I understand that. Really I do.

I can imagine personal circumstances that would make moving quite difficult (moving out of a pricey market, not just moving between two apartments in the same market), however. The poorer you are, the harder that is.

-Arrian

Agreed. It is doubly tough for say a non-custodial single parent that may feel tied to a location near their children or for people with older parents they wish to live near etc etc

WE could come up with a thousand circumstances where a person "needs" to live in a certain place. Butb the reality is that if someone buys a house for 500K they need to get a rent that supports that .

[padillah]

Oh, no doubt that there are instances where lack of funding forces you into a certain lifestyle. But it's much more common to see people simply live beyond their means. When I was in high school (20-25 years ago) I heard a teacher say how they needed a raise 'cause they could barely make the payments on their BMW.

Now, if you're making $45,000 why are you buying an $80,000 car? Or the scam I've seen pulled before:

* Get a credit card and max it
* Transfer the balance to a second credit card and max the first again
* Trans fer the balance to a third credit card and max the first one again... rinse and repeat.

My sisters friend got into $300,000 debt pulling this kind of stunt. I listen to a radio show about buying cars and not a week goes by without someone trying to get out from under the negative equity in their car. They think there's a trick way of reselling your car and purchasing the new car in such a way as to make the money they owe dissapear.

Truth be told I sympathize with the guy spending 50% of his salary on rent. My mortgage is almost 50% and with a wife and two kids I am looking to move to a place that will cost more than 50% of my pay. But I also understand that when I move it's not my bosses fault. I am living and getting from day to day just fine right now. I could continue living here until the kids went away to college, no skin off my nose. When I move it's because I want a better place, and I don't deserve a raise for it.

Tom P.

[Kidlicious]

Originally posted by Flubber


It only applies to the extent that a person knows the rent when they CHOOSE to sign the rental agreement. They also CHOOSE which city in which they want to live.

I see so we can all be free in Wichita Kansas. Somehow I don't see the freedom in that. Care to explain?

[Kidlicious]

Originally posted by Flubber
Butb the reality is that if someone buys a house for 500K they need to get a rent that supports that .

WTF? Why do they have to buy the house?

[Flubber]

Originally posted by Kidicious


I see so we can all be free in Wichita Kansas. Somehow I don't see the freedom in that. Care to explain?

There are thousands of communities in your nation and hundreds in your state. LOts of options.

I GET that some cities are "too expensive" but people still buy and rent in those places-- If they did not, prices/rents would go down.

If you can't change your rent, look at changing your income. In most of the high- rent cities there are lots of jobs or extra ways to make money

[Kidlicious]

Originally posted by Pekka
50% for rent is too much, you just live in too expensive area. If you HAVE to live there, then you just make too little money.

Fix either of those two and problem solved.

And if you don't want to pay as much tax then don't work as much. My point is that rent and tax have the same effect on people. We have to pay both and we can also do things so that we don't have to pay as much.

[Flubber]

Originally posted by Kidicious


WTF? Why do they have to buy the house?

They didn't have to . . thats the point-- Someone assessed things and felt that 500 K was a fair price for the house. Maybe they live in it for a few years and then choose to move elsewhere for whatever reason but want to retain the house.

THey will hope for a rent that can support the payments they are making but they will get "market" rent. If hosuing has gone down so be it