Ken Kutaragi replaced as president of Sony's gaming unit

[Asher]

Originally posted by Kuciwalker
So now throwing is a two-step process, rather than just a single very natural motion with your hand.

You can consider it a twostep motion, but it happens pretty quickly...about the same speed as throwing something at your TV and hoping the tiny strap doesn't break on the Wiimote.

Ever wanted to reload while aiming in Halo 2? The fact that you can't use axby while aiming does limit FPS's on the gamepad.

Read up, young skywalker.

You can reload while aiming in Gears of War, and probably all upcoming 360 FPS.

It is, AGAIN, not a fundamental restriction of the gamepad. Simply button placement on the Xbox1 controller.

[Q Classic]

Originally posted by Asher
After running into room, character turns around. On-screen symbol/hint indicates for you to use the Force to slam a blast door shut. Hold down the left trigger to activate "force", and throw both analog sticks down to slam the door shut. This action is reflected on-screen.

You guys are arguing over this? To be perfectly honest, this is the type of complex button pushing strings and movements that turned off a vast majority of the populace to gaming anyway. It's why most non-gamers, when put in front of a game like that, kinda run around and then lose interest; it's why when they're in fighting games like Soul Calibur, they just mash buttons to see what happens. They see the eight buttons, d-pad, and two analog sticks on a PS2 controller, oblivious to the fact that the analog sticks are themselves buttons, and aren't thinking to themselves, "Hey, this'll be fun!"

They're thinking, "What the **** are all these buttons for? **** it, I'll just turn on the TV."

The Wii, at least in my pov, doesn't seem to want to go after that market at all--they're looking for the casual gamer, the one who wants simple control schemes to do these sorts of actions.

Asher, you're completely right. It's not really a great system for the traditional, more hard-core video games that most of us on this board like to play. But that's missing the point--again, Nintendo seems to be targeting the casual gamer, the one who plays ****ing Flash games on a website like PopCap or AddictingGames. It doesn't need powerful hardware to run that stuff.

It's a risky gamble with a risky control scheme. If it succeeds, they'll be sitting very pretty on a market that, quite frankly, the XBox and PS3 won't be able to tap into as effectively. (The XBox is better positioned, largely on account of a very robust online system.) If it fails, well, it's not like Nintendo has that much farther to fall in marketshare.

[Asher]

Originally posted by Kuciwalker
I don't know of any that aren't too busy innovating with the new controller. I mean, you can't exactly play a game that relies on something a gamepad-only console can't do using only the gamepad.

That's funny, because I've yet to see a game innovate with the new controller nor have I seen one that allows you to use the gamepad.

For instance, Zelda. How the hell does that game rely on the Wiimote, given that the exact same game on Gamecube doesn't use it?

[Elok]

But SSBB will employ the gamepad, they've announced it. Though I imagine it wouldn't be too hard to implement SSB controls with the Wiimote, they wanted to keep the games the way they always were control-wise.

[Kuciwalker]

Read up, young skywalker.

You can reload while aiming in Gears of War, and probably all upcoming 360 FPS.

Not in Halo 2 (I don't know if there's a new control scheme on the 360). In fact, one of the reasons they added the extra shoulder buttons in the first place was so that you could reload and aim simultaneously.

[Kuciwalker]

Q^3 - it's not complex at all. Point at object, press grab, juke the remote in the direction you want to chuck it.

[Asher]

Originally posted by Kuciwalker
You're weaseling by trying to say I'm arguing about "realism". I'm arguing about how natural and easy it is to control something, and what you can actually do with that control. If you can't control the speed of the object very well then you can't do as much with it, such as slam it into something (causing damage) versus just dropping it somewhere else gently.

Those are VERY VERY easy distinctions to make with an analog stick, though.

That's what's so bizarre -- do you have problems with thumb control? Can you not regulate your pressure?

Can you not tap the thumbstick vs slamming it forward?

Why do you paint this as an arduously difficult task when it's painfully simple?

I understand you think it's very complicated to push buttons, I get that. You think this is simpler. Okay, it's simpler for this kind of game. Where is the gameplay innovation that we're talking about?

[Asher]

Originally posted by Kuciwalker
Not in Halo 2 (I don't know if there's a new control scheme on the 360). In fact, one of the reasons they added the extra shoulder buttons in the first place was so that you could reload and aim simultaneously.

WTF are you talking about the Xbox(1) controller?

FOCUS!

We're comparing next-gen consoles, don't compare the Wiimote to the Xbox1 controller...

Just incase this isn't clear to you, Halo 2 is an Xbox1 game, not Xbox 360.

[Asher]

Originally posted by Elok
But SSBB will employ the gamepad, they've announced it. Though I imagine it wouldn't be too hard to implement SSB controls with the Wiimote, they wanted to keep the games the way they always were control-wise.

So you're paying $250 for a woefully underpowered system that won't even come with both types of controllers Nintendo is supporting?

How can you guys support such business practices. They're making fools out of you and running away to the bank and you're happy they raped you.

[Asher]

Originally posted by Q Cubed
But that's missing the point--again, Nintendo seems to be targeting the casual gamer, the one who plays ****ing Flash games on a website like PopCap or AddictingGames. It doesn't need powerful hardware to run that stuff.

I'd argue that Xbox Live Arcade targets that market far more directly than Nintendo, which is largely targetting its Nintendo fanboys mixed in with people who find buttons too complex.

[Q Classic]

Originally posted by Kuciwalker
Q^3 - it's not complex at all. Point at object, press grab, juke the remote in the direction you want to chuck it.

Kuci, I wasn't complaining about the Wii's control scheme.

I was pointing out that Asher's little, "Oh, that's a very easy..." moment isn't what the vast majority of people who are potential gamers are looking for. I have no doubt that over time they could learn that pressing that combination of buttons on the X360 controller would yield the results they want, but most of them will not invest that time.

However, with a Wii, where the control scheme to the user is potentially far simpler, they will be far more likely to invest that time..

[Q Classic]

Originally posted by Asher


I'd argue that Xbox Live Arcade targets that market far more directly than Nintendo, which is largely targetting its Nintendo fanboys mixed in with people who find buttons too complex.

You'd be surprised just how many casual gamers and non-gamers find that many buttons intimidating. A whole, massive, growing untapped market, for instance.

[Asher]

I take it you haven't played Xbox Live Arcade games...

Look at Geometry Wars or Bejeweled for instance. They use what, 1 button and 1 or 2 sticks?

[Elok]

Originally posted by Asher

So you're paying $250 for a woefully underpowered system that won't even come with both types of controllers Nintendo is supporting?

How can you guys support such business practices. They're making fools out of you and running away to the bank and you're happy they raped you.

Yes, but I got used to the feeling of being "raped" after years of having to work with crappy Microsoft products due to THEIR business practices. "We'll sell MS Word to your school at a fantastic bundled rate!" "But what if our students want a word processor that doesn't try to hold their peckers for them when they go to the john?" "Can't beat these values, can you?" At least video games are something we can choose not to play.

More seriously, the gamecube controller probably ain't that expensive seeing as it's been around for five years or so. Nintendo's probably reckoning on a lot of gamers keeping their old gamecube controllers when they switch over. And since the majority of games on the Wii probably will employ the Wiimote (that being the big focus of the system), the GC controller isn't really essential.

[Asher]

Originally posted by Elok
More seriously, the gamecube controller probably ain't that expensive seeing as it's been around for five years or so. Nintendo's probably reckoning on a lot of gamers keeping their old gamecube controllers when they switch over. And since the majority of games on the Wii probably will employ the Wiimote (that being the big focus of the system), the GC controller isn't really essential.

Except when your likely most popular game doesn't use it...