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**Tingkai** · October 31, 2006, 08:21

Uh no. The Leafs are in fourth place in the east. That's a plain and simple fact.

**KrazyHorse** · October 31, 2006, 08:27

Only if you ignore the fact that they've played 3 more games than montreal and 4 more than pittsburgh.

**Sava** · October 31, 2006, 09:28

Blackhawks get shut out for the third game in a row.

**Flubber** · October 31, 2006, 10:41

Originally posted by Tingkai
Uh no. The Leafs are in fourth place in the east. That's a plain and simple fact.

Acknowledged but you have to acknowledge that their standing on winning percentage (or points per-game or winning percentage or whatever you want to call a measure that considers the numbers of games played) the Leafs are 6th . . . still pretty good. Oh I could cite a stat that they have given up the second most goals in the entire league . . . But isn't it better to look at goals surrendered PER GAME

I just find an analysis that just says "but but but they are 4th" to be superficial. Your earlier comments noting key injuries were better.

I just think it will be a wild and crazy year for the Leafs. Even on a per-game basis, their goals against are among the worst in the conference and that usually does not make for an easy ride into the playoffs. Now the Leafs were apparently impressive against Atlanta last night which somewhat counterbalances their awful showings against the Sens and their collapse against the Canadiens.

They may soar but I just think they will be in tight just to make the playoffs (although they may be aided there by the general mediocrity of the conference)

**Flubber** · October 31, 2006, 10:48

oh and the Flames-- oh my

Not a terrible effort as they peppered Washington with shots while giving up a bunch themselves. Powerplay was abysmal, Kipper was fine (but not the superhuman guy that would have won this for them 2-1) and the d struggled. Iginla continued what for him individually had been a good scoring start as his line got both Calgary goals but, as usual, the other lines had some "good high-energy shifts" but contributed a big ZERO. With Detroit and Dallas among their next four games, this will not be the easiest road trip to turn things around but the Flames are getting to the point that they need a stretch where they win 3 out of 4 just to get out from the cellar.

It may be time for that call to the farm . . . and perhaps Ference needs a wake-up call and Giordano can be given a bit of ice again.

**Asher** · October 31, 2006, 10:58

Call the farm, for sure.

Here's what I'd like to see for a game:

Tanguay - Boyd - Iginla
Huselius - Langkow - Lombardi
Kobasew - Taratukin - Amonte
Friesen - Nilson - Lundmark

I think our d-men are okay. I'd take Ference over Giordano anyday.

**Asher** · October 31, 2006, 11:16

Wow. Iginla leads the league in faceoff win percentage at 62.2%...and he's a winger?

**Sava** · October 31, 2006, 14:59

He's probably taken a lot of faceoffs after the center has gotten tossed out... possibly both centers. Or he could have been put in there against guys who were not very good at faceoffs. You'd have to look at the breakdown between home and away games due to the line change situation. He could be the beneficiary of favorable matchups, etc. There are lots of explanations for that.

I wouldn't put too much stock in that stat. It could be very deceptive.

I'm not knocking his faceoff ability, I'm just saying that the coaches probably have a very good idea of his ability and such; and the sample size you are looking at might not be the best indicator of his skill.

**Asher** · October 31, 2006, 15:03

He was 9-1 last night alone vs Washington, which may skew it a bit.

**Sava** · October 31, 2006, 15:07

Well, he was 4-4 against Daynus Zubrus and 3-3 against Kris Beech. Not exactly the cream of the crop.

**Flubber** · October 31, 2006, 18:56

Originally posted by Asher
Wow. Iginla leads the league in faceoff win percentage at 62.2%...and he's a winger?

I don't think he's THAT good but he does take a fair number of faceoffs for Calgary (even without a centre thrown out)-- His game is better suited for the wing regardless of who takes the faceoffs . Its easy enough for players to switch right after the draw is taken

**Flubber** · October 31, 2006, 19:00

Oh and Asher did you hear--- Darryl Sutter gave a press talk today where he indicated that he was pleased with his coaches preparations and gameplans but they need to extract a higher energy level from the players. He also singled out Phaneuf and Igggy as players he was happy with along with Amonte ( which surprised a few). he cited Reghr, Ference and Tanguay as disappointments.

Oh and the call up happened Dustin Boyd and B. Prust are both now expected to start in Detroit. No word on who rides the pince

**Asher** · October 31, 2006, 19:05

Prust? WHY?!

He can't score...

Boyd though.

**Tingkai** · November 1, 2006, 04:23

Originally posted by KrazyHorse
Only if you ignore the fact that they've played 3 more games than montreal and 4 more than pittsburgh.

You're making yourself look like an idiot.

Regardless of whether you acknowledge or ignore the games played, the Leafs were in fourth place.

Just as the Canadiens are now in fourth place. Yes, the the Habs have played two more games than Pittsburgh, but right now the Canadiens are in fourth, period, not fourth with an asterisk.

**Tingkai** · November 1, 2006, 04:34

Originally posted by Flubber
Acknowledged but you have to acknowledge that their standing on winning percentage (or points per-game or winning percentage or whatever you want to call a measure that considers the numbers of games played) the Leafs are 6th . . . still pretty good. Oh I could cite a stat that they have given up the second most goals in the entire league . . . But isn't it better to look at goals surrendered PER GAME

Winning percentages? Interesting concept, but who keeps track of that?

And yes, goals per game might be better, but again, who keeps that stat on a league basis.

And if we look at GA, shoudn't we take into account the competition. Last year, the Wings has a great GA, but that was partially due to the weak teams in their division.

But, no matter what, the goals against highlights a problem with the Leafs. Whether it is a serious problem is debatable. Defensive teams have not won the Cup lately and in the new NHL, a defensive strategy seems to be a wrong approach.

In the end, my comments were to point out that the Leafs are not having major problems like the Flames, but also not flying like the Sabres.

And yes, you're right, it will be a wild ride.

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