Fantasy Hockey - The Reckoning

[Asher]

To be honest, it's because the commish is not doing anything.

The commish is ultimately responsible for the league. It cannot be a democratic league because too many people simply don't pay attention and don't care enough for there to be enough votes either way.

If there are problems with the league, the commish needs to deal with them swiftly and people need to deal with them.

Last season, the problem was I was the commish and when I acted, people yelled at me. Kontiki needs to act as commish to decide either way, and we all need to just accept it and move on. We can't accomplish anything here: the cheaters will continue defending the tactic, and most of the people just don't want to get involved in one of the nye-epic-battles so they shut up.

Of course, I refuse to shut up, and apparently that throws a wrench into the whole system. The only cure for this is Kontiki to take action.

[Asher]

Originally posted by joncha
Because that's what you do. You whine and rant in the thread and people laugh at you. Then you get pissy and quit the league.

The reason I get pissy and quit the league is because you and notyoueither constantly personally attack me, and no one does a thing about it.

I'm in many leagues and have been for yours and I've never had any problems in them. This is the only league I've ever been in that people have done this player rotation system, in any other league they'd be told off immediately by the commishoner that such an act impedes on fair play. In any other league, the attacks and blatant attempts at provocation by you and nye would've been met with strict bans/restrictions/warnings.

In this league, nothing is happening, and it's snowballing out of control.

Exploitations need to be stopped.
Leadership needs to step up.

[joncha]

Exploitation = employing tactics Asher doesn't like
Leadership = doing what Asher wants

gotcha

[notyoueither]

Originally posted by Asher
To be honest, it's because the commish is not doing anything.

The commish is ultimately responsible for the league. It cannot be a democratic league because too many people simply don't pay attention and don't care enough for there to be enough votes either way.

If there are problems with the league, the commish needs to deal with them swiftly and people need to deal with them.

Last season, the problem was I was the commish and when I acted, people yelled at me. Kontiki needs to act as commish to decide either way, and we all need to just accept it and move on. We can't accomplish anything here: the cheaters will continue defending the tactic, and most of the people just don't want to get involved in one of the nye-epic-battles so they shut up.

Of course, I refuse to shut up, and apparently that throws a wrench into the whole system. The only cure for this is Kontiki to take action.

No, it most certainly is not his job to get involved in discipline among managers.

If he thinks it is, we made a very poor choice.

[notyoueither]

Originally posted by Asher

Guy said he didn't care and voted against it for unacceptable reasons (not on the grounds of the issue, but on his personal bias). He admitted as such.

Unacceptable because he doesn't agree with you?

This is hilarious.

[Asher]

Originally posted by joncha
Exploitation = employing tactics Asher doesn't like
Leadership = doing what Asher wants

gotcha

I just want Kontiki to bury the matter one way or the other. It's not doing what I want, it's making a damn decision and then sticking with it.

Exploitation can indeed be employing tactics I don't like. I don't like child labour, and it also happens to be exploitation.

I also think it's exploitation to constantly add/drop players for daily games. The game is clearly not designed for such play, considering the whole point is to build a fantasy team, not win by constantly adding players to work around the NHL schedule and maximize skater games, not skater skill.

It's exploitation because it's not using the system as it's designed. In retrospect, clearly the league needs to set a maximum amount of trades to prevent such tactics. It's too late to implement that now, but for next season it is a must.

For now, I was hoping we could establish a gentleman's agreement to prohibit constantly rotating players. But judging by the gross immaturity, veracity, and aggressiveness the people using this technique have displayed, that will never happen.

[Asher]

Originally posted by notyoueither
Unacceptable because he doesn't agree with you?

This is hilarious.

It would be acceptable if he doesn't agree with me. For instance, Dejon does not agree with me and that's perfectly acceptable.

What's not acceptable is Guy does not agree or disagree with me, he voted "out of spite". You knew that, of course, and you posted that in an attempt to provoke me.

You guys should know it's not going to work this season. This league isn't my primary one anymore, I spend far more time on my others. This one is more for ****s and giggles, so I don't take it very seriously. I do hope to see it played fairly, but clearly (judging by the huge amount of ad hominems and strawmen here), you have absolutely no interest in that.

And that's fine. Here I go, waiver-spamming. There are apparently no rules, and the commish's job, according to you, is to merely input the rosters... Keep trying to wind me up, it only adds to the classy repertoire you two accumulated last season.

[Sparrowhawk]

Originally posted by Asher
But judging by the gross immaturity, veracity, and aggressiveness the people using this technique have displayed, that will never happen.

Now I am wondering if I should be insulted. I beleive the only people who have used this strategy so far are NYE and I. I know your feelings of him, as you saying that I have displayed "gross immaturity, veracity, and aggressiveness" in my responses to you bringing up what I feel is a valid issue for discussion??

If so I am going to have to read back and see where this was so, if not I will assume that you either know of someone else employing this strategy or that you are referring to notyoueither as "the people".

/me

[joncha]

Originally posted by Asher

I just want Kontiki to bury the matter one way or the other. It's not doing what I want, it's making a damn decision and then sticking with it.

Exploitation can indeed be employing tactics I don't like. I don't like child labour, and it also happens to be exploitation.

I also think it's exploitation to constantly add/drop players for daily games. The game is clearly not designed for such play, considering the whole point is to build a fantasy team, not win by constantly adding players to work around the NHL schedule and maximize skater games, not skater skill.

It's exploitation because it's not using the system as it's designed. In retrospect, clearly the league needs to set a maximum amount of trades to prevent such tactics. It's too late to implement that now, but for next season it is a must.

For now, I was hoping we could establish a gentleman's agreement to prohibit constantly rotating players. But judging by the gross immaturity, veracity, and aggressiveness the people using this technique have displayed, that will never happen.

So... you agree that it's too late to change the rules and that a gentleman's agreement will never happen. Why, then, do you want to keep "discussing" this?

[notyoueither]

Incidently, dig up the original thread for this league this season. You will find this:

Originally posted by notyoueither
Settings as they are now.

We discussed adding roster spots to head off endless drops last season, rather than imposing a limit on roster moves.

We also discussed adding a skater stat like SH points.

It's all up for discussion.

Originally posted by notyoueither

Originally posted by Kontiki
Here's the stuff up for discussion, as I see it:

Waiver time - we did two days last year. Anyone want something different this time around?

Can't cut list - this is a list provided by Yahoo and updated periodically of players you cannot cut to prevent bottom feeders from dumping their team. I'd be fine with getting rid of it, it's a default setting.

Roster positions - specifically, the number of bench players. We had four last year and I think that was fine. I added an extra IR spot, which is also up for negotiation.

Stat Categories - as always. I split PPP to add an extra offensive stat, and replaced GAA with wins to balance things out for skaters v. goalies as well as goalies v. goalies.

All OK, but I'd like to expand the bench a bit, unless we get a couple extra teams. The reason for this is that there were just a few too many good players floating around as free agents late in the season, so dropping a bunch of players to pack games in a given week was too effective.

Take a few more players out of free agency and that should be less of a concern.

So, yes, it was discussed, or at the very least I tried to bring it up along with the remedy (more players on rosters so the pool of talent is smaller). I think we've got that. My switching did not affect a single stat. The first two goalies I tried hurt my stats and none of the other pickups had any effect whatsoever on the final result.

[notyoueither]

Originally posted by Asher
You guys should know it's not going to work this season. This league isn't my primary one anymore, I spend far more time on my others. This one is more for ****s and giggles, so I don't take it very seriously. I do hope to see it played fairly, but clearly (judging by the huge amount of ad hominems and strawmen here), you have absolutely no interest in that.

And that's fine. Here I go, waiver-spamming. There are apparently no rules, and the commish's job, according to you, is to merely input the rosters... Keep trying to wind me up, it only adds to the classy repertoire you two accumulated last season.

Would that be ****s and giggles like the Mac Forum?

[Asher]

Originally posted by joncha
So... you agree that it's too late to change the rules and that a gentleman's agreement will never happen. Why, then, do you want to keep "discussing" this?

It's too late for such sweeping changes as maximum player moves, and a gentleman's agreement is only possible, by definition, by gentleman. Clearly those won't happen.

It's not too late for a league policy banning player whoring explicitly for the purpose of 1-game plays.

I've written Yahoo asking for a new feature next year that allows leagues to set a minimum amount of time a player spends on a team.

[Asher]

Originally posted by notyoueither
So, yes, it was discussed, or at the very least I tried to bring it up along with the remedy (more players on rosters so the pool of talent is smaller). I think we've got that. My switching did not affect a single stat. The first two goalies I tried hurt my stats and none of the other pickups had any effect whatsoever on the final result.

Heh. In what world does discussing adding additional player bench spots equate to discussing, and giving the okay, to the practice of constantly adding/dropping players for single-game play only.

[Asher]

Originally posted by notyoueither
Would that be ****s and giggles like the Mac Forum?

Huh?

You're correct in that comparison, actually. The Mac Forum was being exploited and used as an unmoderated off-topic forum, and it was shutdown.

Very apt comparison, really. Here's hoping for a similar conclusion, including the dramatics afterwards.

[notyoueither]

Originally posted by Asher

Heh. In what world does discussing adding additional player bench spots equate to discussing, and giving the okay, to the practice of constantly adding/dropping players for single-game play only.

It's OK by the rules of Yahoo. What about that is hard to understand?

And it was discussed last year, and I explicitly brought it up in the formation of the league this year. It is not our problem if you did not pay attention.