The God Delusion

[Provost Harrison]

Ah, the biblebashing lynchmob has assembled I see...not even relying on logical defence or argument but personal insult.

[notyoueither]

Rather it is comment on your fundamentalism.

[Flip McWho]

It does say how one should live their life.. namely without God (or spirituality) in it.

But, living without God in your life doesn't tell you how to live your life. Though it does limit your choices of how to live your life, just as being a theist does in the opposite vein.

Sava:

For some reason, atheists are unable to admit there are things in the universe that they simply will never understand and never know. It goes hand in hand with a fear of the unknown, IMO.

The word theist also applies in that sentence. Atheists I would assume should be more willing to admit they don't know because they don't have the security of Gods absolute truth to back them up.

[Provost Harrison]

Originally posted by notyoueither
Rather it is comment on your fundamentalism.

You know nothing about me. Don't presume you do...

[Provost Harrison]

Originally posted by DinoDoc
It's the rantings of a drop out who lacked the intellectual tools to actually finish his PhD. What more can you expect?

Ah, if in doubt, resort to a personal attack. Not got anything better than commenting on things you don't understand or know nothing about?

[DaShi]

Re: The God Delusion

Originally posted by Whaleboy
I'm about half-way through Richard Dawkins' excellent new book, "The God Delusion". If his other books weren't enough to turn any of their readers into strong atheists (which in almost all cases I know of, they are), then this one surely is. In short, it's fantastic.

Knowing what we're like, I'm sure we'll probably end up discussing the contents, but that's not the purpose of this post.

I've come up with a very real moral problem.

Me reading this book is like preaching to the converted. I know all the arguments, many of us have used them here over the years. However, most of my intelligent friends have gone to university so naturally we can't speak as much as we used to, so reading a book like this maybe stops me from feeling so intellectually isolated.

As some of you may know, my family are liberal, but observant Jews. While not fanatical by any stretch of the imagination (my mother is a freelance lecturer on Jewish studies and my grandmother is a lifelong Liberal Democrat), they are observant, and they do believe in God.

Is it right for me to offer "The God Delusion" to them?

I believe that faith is a thoroughly harmful thing, and I believe that my life is richer for ignoring feelings of the supernatural. I concur with the view (if not with 100% certainty) that their lives will be better for expelling belief in God.

I know their views would be that this book will not convince them. This is to be expected... doesn't everyone think their faith is unshakeable? My opinion is that it will convince them; for the time being, assume that to be the case.

Would it be a revelation or a humiliation to realise that you've spent your whole life living a lie, and you're now free of that, or would you feel ashamed and depressed that you've raised your children to believe in a fallacious bronze-age myth, at the expense of common-sense, reason and intellectual rigour?

This is something I can't work out. I've been an atheist since I was 10 years old, and a passionate one since my family forced me into doing a Bar Mitzvah, and an active one since I realised that the mind of small, insignificant me was sufficient to destroy the idea of God. In my mum's case, I don't have four sons (two of whom are grown up) and my career does not depend on my religion.

In my grandmothers case, I've never had my faith as a comfort blanket when I've lost someone, and I've never lived 83 years with the safe certainty that in not-so-long-from-now, I'll die and go to heaven, and be re-united with the love of my life who'se been dead for 28 years now.

On the other hand, they're the kind of people who would feel better if they eventually discovered that they had been lied to, and no-one had told them if they were in posession of that knowledge. My family have never, ever tolerated intellectual dishonesty from me, and I'd like to think of myself as an intellectually honest person as a result.

I suppose one attempt to answer the question would be "if such a book existed that would prove beyond all reasonable doubt that there was a God, would I want to read it". See the above paragraph, of course I would! It would bother me that I've been wrong for so long but superior logic is like a light in the darkness to me. How many times on here have I been shown to be wrong, and adopted the better logic of my opponent? I've lost count.

I'd take it as an intellectual challenge to see if I could refute this book.

But to me, opinions are an intellectual chess match. I'm 21 years old, I've invested absolutely no emotional capital in my views, and I'm free to chop and change them whenever I want.

So that's why I'm asking for advice on what to do.

Continue to feel superior to them. Also, remember whatever you believe is right and should be forced upon others as absolute truth. Nonbelievers be damned as fools and heretics!

[Flip McWho]

Nobody's saying that atheism should be forced onto other people.

[DaShi]

No one's saying religion should be forced either. It's just the right choice.

[Jon Miller]

Apparently you haven't read the posts of some of the posters of this thread..

JM

[Provost Harrison]

He's only asked the theists to read a book and defend their faith against it. It's the theist horde here who are construing what they find convenient into it...

[Jon Miller]

I don't feel like quoting the OP.. when it is just a few posts above.

JM

[Jon Miller]

Originally posted by Provost Harrison
He's only asked the theists to read a book and defend their faith against it. It's the theist horde here who are construing what they find convenient into it...

You have also, yourself, PH, said that atheism should be forced on people..

JM
(maybe not in this thread, but stil..)

[DaShi]

He found a book that echoes what he believes and wants other people to read it assuming that they'll be enlightened or humilated by it. What's this book anyway? The Bible?

[notyoueither]

For the fanaticism of some the Koran would be more appropriate.

[Odin]

Originally posted by Sava
Odin. If you are an atheist, you cannot be a scientist (philosophically). Atheism is a belief that cannot be proven. A true scientist would not come to conclusions without sufficient proof.

Atheism has nothing to do with science and people shouldn't mention them together, nor use science to justify atheism at all.

Atheism is faith.

Calling Atheism a faith is like calling bald a hair color. Is disbelief in invisible magical unicorns that live on the far side of the moon faith? It would be according to you, apparently.