The God Delusion

[GePap]

Originally posted by Sava
Odin. If you are an atheist, you cannot be a scientist (philosophically). Atheism is a belief that cannot be proven. A true scientist would not come to conclusions without sufficient proof.

Atheism has nothing to do with science and people shouldn't mention them together, nor use science to justify atheism at all.

Atheism is faith.

What?

A strong belief that there can't be a god would be a belief one can't empirically support.

Not believing there is such a thing as god because there is no empirical support is not a faith, because it is based on the simple scientific principle that only those things that can be tested and experimented on can be accepted as real.

Some may label that as being agnostic but there would be no real difference between that and aethism.

And of course, one does not need to be a theist to be religious or spiritual. Religion does not need a god or gods to function as a system of belief.

[SlowwHand]

An atheist says there is no God. They gamble their soul on it. That's faith.

[GePap]

Originally posted by notyoueither


Sure it is.

Belief in purple leprechauns living in underground colonies on Venus is not a notion that is universal to human cultures spanning continents, time, and in isolation from each other. The idea that you can propose funny things that could be believed in, but are not, says nothing about the value of faith and spiritualism in human culture, let alone the existence of gods or God.

Anthropomorphication is a very common human activity. That humans would give human characteristic to forces outside of their control and their early understanding is simply human's way of trying to explain things to themselves. That does not really argue against what Shiva said.

[GePap]

Originally posted by SlowwHand
An atheist says there is no God. They gamble their soul on it. That's faith.

There being no evidence of such a thing as a soul, that is an opinion at best.

[SlowwHand]

No, that's faith at best.

[Jon Miller]

Originally posted by GePap
Not believing there is such a thing as god because there is no empirical support is not a faith, because it is based on the simple scientific principle that only those things that can be tested and experimented on can be accepted as real.

All scientists, who I know, know that there are things that can not be tested or experimented on (currently) that are real. Most beleive that there are things that will never be able to be tested on or experimented on that are real (and I am not talking about deistic scientists here, I am talking about atheistic ones).

This is just in the field of scientific inquiry known as physics. If you include it to less grounded disciplines, it becomes even more true.

JM

[GePap]

Originally posted by Jon Miller


All scientists, who I know, know that there are things that can not be tested or experimented on (currently) that are real. Most beleive that there are things that will never be able to be tested on or experimented on that are real (and I am not talking about deistic scientists here, I am talking about atheistic ones).

This is just in the field of scientific inquiry known as physics. If you include it to less grounded disciplines, it becomes even more true.

JM

There is a difference between making a metaphysical statement like "there can;t be a deity" based on the notion of empiricism, which is untenable, and stating that you will accept only things that be be proven empirically as truth, and as such you will forsake such metaphysical notions as a deity.

If you simply renounce the metaphysical because it lies outside of the realm of empiricism, then that is not faith. Ideology certainly, but not faith.

[SlowwHand]

Hebrews 11:1

[Joseph]

Jesus once said, he who turns away from my Father, My Father will turn away from him.
Since I don't have a fee pass, I do believe and if I do get there, Heavin that is, I doubt that I will see most of you there unless you change your ways.

[notyoueither]

Originally posted by GePap


Anthropomorphication is a very common human activity. That humans would give human characteristic to forces outside of their control and their early understanding is simply human's way of trying to explain things to themselves. That does not really argue against what Shiva said.

Yes it does.

The arguments about lepercons and flying spagetti monsters are snickering up the sleeve about 95% of humanity.

It is a fundamental lack of respect. These lapses in respect tend to have messy endings.

[notyoueither]

Take for example the sad case of Mr. Harrison.

I just think these people have not been equipped with the necessary intellectual tools to decide

This is not the statement of someone who is happy to coexist with others who do not beleive as he does.

I'll go so far as to say that such sentiments are the required precursors to many a human calamity.

Atheists are fine when they profess their 'belief', but they are every bit as dangerous as ideologues as the biggest ******* of a pope you can find when they decide they have the 'one right way'.

[DinoDoc]

Originally posted by notyoueither
Take for example the sad case of Mr. Harrison.

I just think these people have not been equipped with the necessary intellectual tools to decide

This is not the statement of someone who is happy to coexist with others who do not beleive as he does.

It's the rantings of a drop out who lacked the intellectual tools to actually finish his PhD. What more can you expect?

[Flip McWho]

Atheists are fine when they profess their 'belief', but they are every bit as dangerous as ideologues as the biggest ******* of a pope you can find when they decide they have the 'one right way'.

One right way to what?

Atheism isn't an ideology that tells you how to live your life. It's just a position on a particular question.

[Jon Miller]

No, for many it is an ideology. It does say how one should live their life.. namely without God (or spirituality) in it.

Jon Miller

[notyoueither]

That's fine as far as it goes, Flip.

It's when the urge is felt to look down upon those who do not beleive as you do that the problems come in.

As they so frequently have done so, no matter what your belief is.