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  • #91
    Originally posted by Asher

    They can, it doesn't mean it's a smart thing to do in general.
    Well, that's why you trust what your scouts tell you.

    If you think Jagr has some great seasons left in the tank, then go for it. The Rangers are a respectable franchise right now because their organization traded for Jagr, believing he was capable of returning to his league-MVP-level status. He was.

    Your generalizations are easily refuted by the examples to the contrary.

    There are, of course, veterans who don't pan out. (Quick, who has the Canes' largest cap figure? Hint: it's not Staal, Ward, Recchi, Stillman, or anyone else who's been remotely useful to the franchise.) In the same vein, there are young players who are expected to improve but never do.

    Why oversimplify?
    "You're the biggest user of hindsight that I've ever known. Your favorite team, in any sport, is the one that just won. If you were a woman, you'd likely be a slut." - Slowwhand, to Imran

    Eschewing silly games since December 4, 2005

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    • #92
      Originally posted by notyoueither
      In other words, all you have is your opinion. That's fine, but not entirely convincing.
      I think you'll find it's not only my opinion, but common sense and general consensus...

      If you want to say older people are not more prone to injury than younger people, the burden of proof is on you.
      "The issue is there are still many people out there that use religion as a crutch for bigotry and hate. Like Ben."
      Ben Kenobi: "That means I'm doing something right. "

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      • #93
        Originally posted by Jaguar
        Your generalizations are easily refuted by the examples to the contrary.


        I'm afraid that's not how it works. Generalizations leave ample room for exceptions. You cannot refute a generalization by a counterexample...
        "The issue is there are still many people out there that use religion as a crutch for bigotry and hate. Like Ben."
        Ben Kenobi: "That means I'm doing something right. "

        Comment

        • #94
          Then what's the point of them? "I'm right except in the many cases where I'm wrong" isn't a particularly appealing statement.
          "You're the biggest user of hindsight that I've ever known. Your favorite team, in any sport, is the one that just won. If you were a woman, you'd likely be a slut." - Slowwhand, to Imran

          Eschewing silly games since December 4, 2005

          Comment

          • #95
            If you want to discuss why we have "rules of thumb" and "generalizations", I'd reckon that's a topic for its own thread...
            "The issue is there are still many people out there that use religion as a crutch for bigotry and hate. Like Ben."
            Ben Kenobi: "That means I'm doing something right. "

            Comment

            • #96
              Originally posted by Asher


              I think you'll find it's not only my opinion, but common sense and general consensus...

              If you want to say older people are not more prone to injury than younger people, the burden of proof is on you.
              OK. Stats. Facts, you know those things?

              Staios, 32yo, 82 games played
              Smith, 32yo, 76 games played
              Pronger 31yo, 80 games played
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              • #97
                Chelios, 44yo, 81 games played
                Schneider, 37yo, 72 games played. Missed 7 games (lower body injury).
                Lidstrom, 36yo, 80 games played
                Wolley, 36yo, 53 games played. Missed 10 games (groin) and then 5 more.
                Lilja, 30yo, 82 games played
                Kronwall, 25yo, 27 games played. Missed 52 games (knee injury).

                Seems Detroit lost more games on the young guy.
                (\__/)
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                (")_(") This is Bunny. Copy and paste bunny into your signature to help him gain world domination.

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                • #98
                  It's one thing to be injured like Kronwall was, it's another thing to injure your groin...

                  And again, I'm not playing this game with you. You think old men aren't more susceptible to injury than young men. Quoting hand-picked players isn't proving it one way or another.

                  It's a medical fact that the male body is at its physical peak in the 20s in terms of fitness and durability, and it drops off after that point. If you don't understand that, it's really not my problem.
                  "The issue is there are still many people out there that use religion as a crutch for bigotry and hate. Like Ben."
                  Ben Kenobi: "That means I'm doing something right. "

                  Comment

                  • #99
                    Atlanta

                    Modry, 35yo, 79 games played. Missed the last 3 games of the regular season (hamstring). 11th season
                    de Vries, 33yo, 82 games played. 9th season
                    Havelid, 33yo, 82 games played. 5th season
                    Sutton, 31yo, 76 games played. 6th season
                    Hnidy, 30yo, 66 games played. Missed 7 games (separated shoulder). 4th season
                    McCarthy, 25yo, 67 games played. Missed 8 games (groin). 5th season
                    Exelby, 24yo, 75 games played. TSN says 3 games lost to injury/illness. 2nd season.
                    Popovic, 23 yo, 7 games played. Rookie

                    You notice something here? Like you aren't a veteran defenceman that most gm's and coaches would trust with the back line until you're around 30?
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                    (")_(") This is Bunny. Copy and paste bunny into your signature to help him gain world domination.

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                    • #100
                      Here's a random example. Calgary's defense in 05-06.

                      Andrew Ference (27): 0 games missed
                      Mark Giordano (22): 0 games missed
                      Jordan Leopold (25): 8 games missed
                      Dion Phaneuf (21): 0 games missed
                      Robyn Regehr (26): 14 games missed

                      Rhett Warrener (30): 20 games missed
                      Bryan Marchment (37): 24 games missed
                      Roman Hamrlik (32): 31 games missed
                      Cale Hulse (32): 13 games missed

                      Average games missed due to injury of players 20-29 years old: 4.4
                      Average games missed due to injury of players 30-37 years old: 22

                      You notice something here? Like you aren't a veteran defenceman that most gm's and coaches would trust with the back line until you're around 30?

                      Is this a joke? Atlanta had one of the worst defences in the league...and look at their ages.

                      Calgary had one of the best defenses in the league...and all the reasons for that are the young guys.
                      "The issue is there are still many people out there that use religion as a crutch for bigotry and hate. Like Ben."
                      Ben Kenobi: "That means I'm doing something right. "

                      Comment

                      • #101
                        Montreal

                        Simpson, 33yo, 51 games played. Lot of scratches. 9th season
                        Rivet, 31yo, 82 games played. 10th season.
                        Bouillon, 30yo, 67 games played. Missed 15 games (ankle injury). 5th season
                        Dandenault, 30yo, 82 games played. 9th season. 1st time he's played 82 games, btw
                        Souray, 29yo, 75 games played. Missed 4 games (groin) and a few elsewhere. 6th season
                        Streit, 28yo, 48 games played. Missed 3 games (flu) and a lot of scratches. Rookie
                        Markov, 27yo, 67 games played. Missed 8 games (shoulder injury) and 4 more for others. 4th season
                        Cote, 24yo, 8 games played. Rookie
                        Komisarek, 24yo, 71 games played. Missed 10 games (personal reasons). 2nd season

                        Hmmm. 28yo rookie. Could it be dmen don't break in as soon as forwards?

                        Notice the older ones play more?

                        Phaneuf is not the norm. He is a monster. Sutter did very well getting him, but not many work out like that.
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                        (")_(") This is Bunny. Copy and paste bunny into your signature to help him gain world domination.

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                        • #102
                          WTF are you on, man.

                          I understand that defencemen tend to be better when they're not rookies. There's more room for experience and intelligence in defensive work than just scoring goals.

                          The ideal is age 25-30 for defensemen. After that, they tend (not always -- some continue to be monsters) to decline as their body ages.

                          I still don't see what this has to do with being more prone to injuries when you're older (which is really common sense, honestly) and not giving up a lot of youthful prospects for an aging player.
                          "The issue is there are still many people out there that use religion as a crutch for bigotry and hate. Like Ben."
                          Ben Kenobi: "That means I'm doing something right. "

                          Comment

                          • #103
                            Originally posted by Asher
                            You notice something here? Like you aren't a veteran defenceman that most gm's and coaches would trust with the back line until you're around 30?

                            Is this a joke? Atlanta had one of the worst defences in the league...and look at their ages.

                            Calgary had one of the best defenses in the league...and all the reasons for that are the young guys.
                            Now what about Detroit?

                            You're problem on this topic, Asher, is that you have Phaneuf on the brain. He is a very rare and yes, quote this, valuable jewel.

                            I hope things work out well for him. I'd like to see Canada win a few championships with him anchoring the dcorps. He's got years ahead of him. Literally. If nobody screws things up he'll be playing another 14 to 19 years.

                            The scarey part is that he should only get better with experience.
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                            (")_(") This is Bunny. Copy and paste bunny into your signature to help him gain world domination.

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                            • #104
                              And I'm also not sure why you'd pick Montreal and Atlanta to prove a point about solid defensive teams...

                              Why don't you pick the actually good defensive teams? Like, Calgary.
                              "The issue is there are still many people out there that use religion as a crutch for bigotry and hate. Like Ben."
                              Ben Kenobi: "That means I'm doing something right. "

                              Comment

                              • #105
                                Originally posted by Asher
                                It's one thing to be injured like Kronwall was, it's another thing to injure your groin...

                                And again, I'm not playing this game with you. You think old men aren't more susceptible to injury than young men. Quoting hand-picked players isn't proving it one way or another.

                                It's a medical fact that the male body is at its physical peak in the 20s in terms of fitness and durability, and it drops off after that point. If you don't understand that, it's really not my problem.
                                I'm going to go through every team, nothing random about it.

                                It's a long summer.
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                                (='.'=)
                                (")_(") This is Bunny. Copy and paste bunny into your signature to help him gain world domination.

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