F-16s to Iran or Cuba

[Serb]

Originally posted by Thorgal

No. That is a MISSILE of medium size. The previous one was a huge aircraft unguided ROCKET (note the difference).

I noticed the difference, that's why I didn't mentioned the word "missile" refering to your "huge" comment and latter used capital letters to type the word "MISSILE".

If you want show us a really huge MISSILE you should look for some image of the kh-20 (AS-3) Kangaroo for instance.

Comparing the size of the aircraft, which carry it, that's a HUGE missile, since Su-32 (fighter-bomber) is much lesser than Tu-95 (strategic bomber).

[Dinner]

Originally posted by Serb

They shot it down with Soviet S-75 SAM which is, well, 50 years old.

The main problem with that case was complacency. The Us cleared 2-3 air corridors and then continued to use the exact same routes for several weeks.What the Serbs did was put everything they had on one of the corridors in an attempt to snag a plane using a known route.

If the lazy Air Force bastards hadn't been pinching pennies then they would have cleared new routes each time to insure the enemy could predict their flight path. Once you've been using the same flight path dozens of times per day for weeks then it doesn't take a genius to figure what flight path you are likely to use again.

[Dinner]

Originally posted by Serb
F-22, Eurofighter...childish toys.

That's the plane!

As yet still does not have thrust vectering or supersonic cruise. Much less stealth or the superior avionics.

[Dinner]

Originally posted by Vince278

Pray you never have to find out.

I'm sure we'll beat up some Russian client state in the next 20 years and we'll all find out. The Migs and the French made planes didn't do the Iraqis much good.

[Kontiki]

Originally posted by Oerdin


I'm sure we'll beat up some Russian client state in the next 20 years and we'll all find out. The Migs and the French made planes didn't do the Iraqis much good.

Nor would have F-15s or F-16s. I know some people like to have wet dreams about their country's own planes, but remember that the US hasn't gone up against a roughly equal quality air force since (arguably) Korea and (definitively) WWII and isn't likely to any time in the foreseeable future, regardless of what kind of aircraft they have.

[Dinner]

True, which is why the US Air Force seems to do so poorly in dog fighting during excersizes. The government has cut back training and the pilots are used to just running their missions, hitting the target, and going home.

[Serb]

Originally posted by Oerdin


As yet still does not have thrust vectering or supersonic cruise. Much less stealth or the superior avionics.

You must be kidding. Thrust vectering is our playground. You are ages behind us in this technology. Su-37 is the most agille plane in the world. No western fighter can perform "super cobra" or "kulbit".
And Su-47 is superior in every other aspect.

[Serb]

http://aeroweb.lucia.it/~junap95/fighters/su37.htm

[BeBMan]

http://www.hph.cz/images_big/304S-07b.jpg

[BeBMan]

Originally posted by Oerdin
(...) and the pilots are used to just running their missions, hitting the target, and going home.

No wonder they are falling behind if they're hitting it all the time

[Dinner]

bombing runs /= dog fighting. I was saying they were more used to bombing then dog fighting these days.

[Serb]

Btw, how you gonna knock out our planes from the safe range, considering that we have the world's best AAMs?
Max range
Russian:
R-33E - 160km
R-37 - 280km (actully hit targets over 300km during training launch)
KS-172 (AAM-L) - 400km

The best American AAM in terms of max range is AIM-54 Phoenix (180km). But it's production was cancelled and missile being decommissioned, because it was expensive as hell (something like 1 million USD) and few US pilots ever actually fired it during training.

So, how the hell you gonna shot our planes? Sidewinders (26 km)? ASAT? Harry Potter's farts? Anything?

Please explain.

[Serb]

A little preemptive strike from me: max range of latest Russian radars (Su-35, Su-37) is 400 km.

[Serb]

More about advanced American propulsion:

"The Su-37's powerplant comprises two experimental TVC turbofans, type AL-31FU. Depending on a maneuver to be performed, the nozzles can be deflected both synchronously and differentially. The biggest problem with the implementation of the TVC nozzle concept, that has still not be resolved by the Americans, was to provide the nozzle reversal joint with a seal strong enough to prevent outblast of the gases with a temperature of almost 2,000 oC and pressure of 5 to 7 kgf/cm2. The AL-31F and AL-31FU engines are fully interchangeable; in other words, all the derivatives of the Su-27 and the base aircraft may be powered by the AL-31FU engine. As well as powering the Su-37 fighter, the AL-31FU engine will be first installed on the Su-30MK multirole two-seater fighter".

And more about "inferior" Russian radars/avionics:

"Su-37 is furnished with the full range of onboard systems and equipment, and is a prototype of the series production aircraft. Its avionics equipment comprises an onboard multifunction jamproof forward-looking phased-array radar that can track up to 15 targets at a time, provide target designation, launch and guide several air-to-air missiles fitted with active, passive and IR homing heads, and an optronic fire control and surveillance system. In addition, the onboard avionics equipment is used for mapping, multichannel employment of guided weapons and low altitude flight with avoidance of ground features.

The information and control facilities in the pilot's cockpit cover four wide liquid-crystal displays of tactical and flight-navigation data, onboard system monitors and an operating conditions control panel. Information from individual systems may be presented on any display selected by the pilot. One more widescope indicator is installed on the windscreen.

The side short-travel control stick of the aircraft, avionics control handle and strain-gauging engine thrust controls, as well as tactical situation, flight conditions and systems monitors enable the pilot to effectively control the aircraft, systems and weapons".

http://www.propro.ru/flankers/eng/Su-37.htm

[Jon Miller]

I beleive the Russian planes are really good (perhaps better than the F-22), however, they don't have enough money to build any..

JM