F-16s to Iran or Cuba

[Ogie Oglethorpe]

Originally posted by Kontiki
None. Like Che said, they're not going to be able to maintain or upgrade them, and it's not like they have the pilots and massive support network to use them to the best of their abilities anyway.

The relative quality of a current front line US fighter and a current front line Russian fighter is overrated when it comes to combat anyway. The training and quality of your pilots, radar, intelligence, AWACS, ground crew, availability of spare parts, ability to continually upgrade etc. are all more important. I mean seriously, suppose Iraq had F-15s and F-16 during the 1991 Gulf War and the US had Russian planes, but everything else was the same. I strongly doubt the US would have lost even one more plane, or had any more difficult a time achieving air dominance.

QFT

Airframes are perhaps the least important aspect of the modern fighter (save stealth). Its all in the electronics both in the fighter and in the support aircraft.

[Thorgal]

Originally posted by Oerdin
He's free to sell his planes to anyone he wants. I'm sure he knows he's selling the best air superiority fighter in the world to buy an intercepter/fighter which is measurably inferior in just about every way (the sole exception being the it's cheaper) but he's doing it for a bit of political grandstanding. Since that's all Chavez does it is understandable.

First, Venezuela is changing F-16 for Su-35, not f-15. To chosse among F-16 and Su-35 is a no brainer. Su-27 family are in the same class as F-15 while F-16 is a small polivalent fighter and NO an air superiority fighter.
About the F-15 being the best fighter in the world, it was but it is not anymore for a long shot. Any Eurofighter (as has been already proved in some exercices), Rafale and maybe Su-35 and even Grippen would easily wipe the floor with the F-15.

In the long run the F-15 is now being phased out of production for the F-22 (which is far and away the best fighter in the world)

The F-22 is a total dissaster. It is so expensive they only can afford about 100-175 of an initial order of 800. They cant replace 1000 F-15 with 100 F-22 and the F-35 is not enough, so they will modernize the Eagle to F-15K to use it as long as they can.

and Venezuela hasn't bought a fighter from us since the 1980's so the effects are tiny. The very fact that Iran and Cuba want the F-15s shows how much better they are then the fighters either of those countries currently own.

I know all this is hurting your national pride a bit, but Cuba and Iran wants the F-16s because Venezuela is going to sell the planes for a veeery low prize, nearly symbolic, and in the cause of Cuba for free.

[pchang]

The US should sue in world court. If the US wins, then it can legally seize some Venezuelan assets as compensation.

[Harry Tuttle]

Considering the tech in an F-22, the armament load, and the lack of wars to fight in I think the F-22 is going to do just fine, especially against the Eurofighter and whatever sludge the Russians piece together. Dogfighting doesn't work anymore and payloads can be delivered from many other means.

Remember, the VTOL in the works will replace just about every other fighter in the armed forces. That'll be the staple.

[Thorgal]

Considering the tech in an F-22, the armament load, and the lack of wars to fight in I think the F-22 is going to do just fine, especially against the Eurofighter and whatever sludge the Russians piece together.

Of course, considering prize it MUST do fine.

[Harry Tuttle]

... ok, so why is it a disaster? They knew how much the things would cost when they started building them.

[Pekka]

pchang, US doesn't believe in world court?

[Tattila the Hun]

Originally posted by Thorgal
The F-22 is a total dissaster. It is so expensive they only can afford about 100-175 of an initial order of 800. They cant replace 1000 F-15 with 100 F-22 and the F-35 is not enough, so they will modernize the Eagle to F-15K to use it as long as they can.

Much to the shock and dismay of many people, Soviet Union does not exist anymore. Thus, I doubt they actually need 1000 F-15's.

[Agathon]

Originally posted by pchang
The US should sue in world court. If the US wins, then it can legally seize some Venezuelan assets as compensation.

The same world court it ignored in the 80s when it was condemned for its actions in Nicaragua.

Who cares about the US. Chavez can do what he wants and there is jack you can do about it. You can't even subdue a third world country, and everyone knows it.

[Q Classic]

Honestly, I'm all for buying more F-22s.

The best way to stay #1 is to act as if you're #2; the best way to lose your #1 spot is to act as if you're #1.

This is something which, by and large, America has forgotten. The fact we go around saying we're the best country in the world doesn't help--we've bought into it.

Not only have we as a people bought into it, but so has the political rhetoric--which is why there's nobody with vision, with sense, running for office anymore.

[Thorgal]

Originally posted by Harry Tuttle
... ok, so why is it a disaster? They knew how much the things would cost when they started building them.

As i tried to explain in my post, they didnt. Because that they ordered 800 and now they will have 100 or 175 maximum. So now there are not enough F-22s to equip the squadrons and they are going to upgrade the F-15 to "replace" the F-22 that they will not receive.

[Dinner]

Originally posted by MRT144
why did iraq bury their planes? its the same thing.

They didn't on a large scale.

[Dinner]

Thurgol, anyone who claims the Eurofighter is anything other then mediocre doesn't know much about air planes. The Eurofighter is an all around under performer which took something like 20 years between design to production so that it was obsolete before the first one rolled off of the production line.

[Q Classic]

Hey, be nice... Eurofighter was designed by committee, so you've got to lower the bar somewhat...

[Kidlicious]

Originally posted by Agathon
You can't even subdue a third world country, and everyone knows it.