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Originally posted by Joseph
That is what happen to our F-14. Iran gave one or more to Russia. Now they have the Mig 29 and Su 27/30 series
I remember a case where a defecting pilot flew a MiG-25 to South Korea. We were so excited to see what could be learned. That excitement slowly turned to disappointment when we learned how poorly designed they were (for a supposed F-15 clone).
"And so, my fellow Americans: ask not what your country can do for you—ask what you can do for your country. My fellow citizens of the world: ask not what America will do for you, but what together we can do for the freedom of man." -- JFK Inaugural, 1961
"Extremism in the defense of liberty is not a vice." -- Barry Goldwater, 1964 GOP Nomination acceptance speech (not George W. Bush 40 years later...)
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The US and will retain the best air force in thw world for the simple reason that the US is the only country that spends the money to have a top notch air force with worldwide reach. Some other states may have great regional air forces (Israel, Japan), but no one even comes close in spending, and what spending gets you is not only the fancy planes, but the training for pilots, the infrastructure and spare parts, the support aircraft like tankers and most importantly Command and Control aircraft like AWACS. If the Japanese or Europeans themselves went to 4% of GDP on military like the US, they would probably seriously challenge US air supremacy. BUt that ain't going to happen any time soon politically speaking.
Making the whole plane debate a bit useless.
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I remember a case where a defecting pilot flew a MiG-25 to South Korea. We were so excited to see what could be learned. That excitement slowly turned to disappointment when we learned how poorly designed they were (for a supposed F-15 clone).
The MIG25 was not an air superiority fighter. It was an interceptor. That's why it was so fast with such an insane cealing.
So it was not a F-15 clone. I don't think the US amde anything like the MIG25 since the US was not that worried about Soviet long range bombers.
The SU-27 was the F-15 challenger.
If you don't like reality, change it! me
"Oh no! I am bested!" Drake
"it is dangerous to be right when the government is wrong" Voltaire
"Patriotism is a pernecious, psychopathic form of idiocy" George Bernard Shaw
The F-15 was the MiG-25 clone. Until the defector took the plan to Japan, the U.S. was rather worried, and designed the F-15 to match what they thought the MiG-25 could do.
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Originally posted by Thorgal
BTW, If I remember correctly there was an US navy F-18 shot down by a MiG-25 the first day of the 1991 gulf war.
Oooo. Now please tell us how many of theirs we got (that didn't run away, of course).
"And so, my fellow Americans: ask not what your country can do for you—ask what you can do for your country. My fellow citizens of the world: ask not what America will do for you, but what together we can do for the freedom of man." -- JFK Inaugural, 1961
"Extremism in the defense of liberty is not a vice." -- Barry Goldwater, 1964 GOP Nomination acceptance speech (not George W. Bush 40 years later...)
2004 Presidential Candidate
2008 Presidential Candidate (for what its worth)
The MIG25 was not an air superiority fighter. It was an interceptor. That's why it was so fast with such an insane cealing.
So it was not a F-15 clone. I don't think the US amde anything like the MIG25 since the US was not that worried about Soviet long range bombers.
The SU-27 was the F-15 challenger.
The Mig-25 was built to shoot down the B-70. Jimmy Carter cancels the B-70.
We were concerned with Soviet Bombers, that is why we build 2 of the A-11 into the F-12. After a while the Air Force said we did not need the F-12 so they converted them in SR-71. The A-11/SR-71/F-12 were basic the same plane with some changes to each type. Some A-11 are still at Lockheed in Plamdale.
A-11 were flew by the CIA, SR's and F-12 by the Air Force.
Also we were starting to build the F-14's and The F-15's.
Originally posted by Thorgal
His fears were founded since before the F-15 there were not plane in the US Air Force capable in any way of confronting the MiG-25.
BTW, If I remember correctly there was an US navy F-18 shot down by a MiG-25 the first day of the 1991 gulf war.
I don't remember one being shot down in air to air, but there was one shot down by a SAM, and some A-10s were killed by anti-aircraft fire.
I'm pretty much sure - none, during active phase of the second war (comparable in time with your Serbian agression). How many planes and helos did the Afghanis and Iraqis get?
Planes none that I know of but several helecopters. Choppers are easy to shot down because they tend to be low to the ground and relatively slow.
Originally posted by Thorgal
His fears were founded since before the F-15 there were not plane in the US Air Force capable in any way of confronting the MiG-25.
BTW, If I remember correctly there was an US navy F-18 shot down by a MiG-25 the first day of the 1991 gulf war.
Well we had one. The F-106 Interceptor, top speed, 1525 mph. Service ceiling 57,000 feet. Armament: One internal 20mm M-61 multi-barrel cannon, one AIR-2A and one AIR-2G Genie and 2 each of AIM-4E, 4F or 4G falcons.
Falcons, Mach 4 speed, 7 miles range, some model had a nuc warhead.
Genie were all nuc. Speed 3.3, range over 6 miles.
Mig-25 max speed Mach 3, just under 2,000 mph, with missile 2.8 speed. Ceiling 75,000 feet
A decent pilot in a Harrier could probably take on most of these planes (assuming it was fitted with modern radar and missiles), and Harriers aren't even supersonic. All the pilot would need to do, would be to let the opponent reach maximum firing range (from behind), and then slam the Harrier into reverse... Most US pilots would fly a standard jet at top speed, let off a missile or several, fly past, then turn around for another run... with the Harrier in reverse, the missile would fly straight past before arming, giving the Harrier time to a) launch defences, and b) launch a missile up the tailpipe of the opponent's jet as it flies past.
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Originally posted by MMC
A decent pilot in a Harrier could probably take on most of these planes (assuming it was fitted with modern radar and missiles), and Harriers aren't even supersonic. All the pilot would need to do, would be to let the opponent reach maximum firing range (from behind), and then slam the Harrier into reverse... Most US pilots would fly a standard jet at top speed, let off a missile or several, fly past, then turn around for another run... with the Harrier in reverse, the missile would fly straight past before arming, giving the Harrier time to a) launch defences, and b) launch a missile up the tailpipe of the opponent's jet as it flies past.
Theoretically speaking of course.
"And so, my fellow Americans: ask not what your country can do for you—ask what you can do for your country. My fellow citizens of the world: ask not what America will do for you, but what together we can do for the freedom of man." -- JFK Inaugural, 1961
"Extremism in the defense of liberty is not a vice." -- Barry Goldwater, 1964 GOP Nomination acceptance speech (not George W. Bush 40 years later...)
2004 Presidential Candidate
2008 Presidential Candidate (for what its worth)
Originally posted by Joseph
I don't remember one being shot down in air to air, but there was one shot down by a SAM, and some A-10s were killed by anti-aircraft fire.
No. The F-18 piloted by Michael Speicher (google it) was shot down in air to air combat by a Mig-25 the first night of the war.
"And so, my fellow Americans: ask not what your country can do for you—ask what you can do for your country. My fellow citizens of the world: ask not what America will do for you, but what together we can do for the freedom of man." -- JFK Inaugural, 1961
"Extremism in the defense of liberty is not a vice." -- Barry Goldwater, 1964 GOP Nomination acceptance speech (not George W. Bush 40 years later...)
2004 Presidential Candidate
2008 Presidential Candidate (for what its worth)
Originally posted by Joseph
Well we had one. The F-106 Interceptor, top speed, 1525 mph. Service ceiling 57,000 feet. Armament: One internal 20mm M-61 multi-barrel cannon, one AIR-2A and one AIR-2G Genie and 2 each of AIM-4E, 4F or 4G falcons.
Falcons, Mach 4 speed, 7 miles range, some model had a nuc warhead.
Genie were all nuc. Speed 3.3, range over 6 miles.
Mig-25 max speed Mach 3, just under 2,000 mph, with missile 2.8 speed. Ceiling 75,000 feet
I frankly cant see the F-106 Delta Dart with too many possibilities against a Mig-25. The F-106 was a century series fighter. a generation older than the Mig-25. Its missiles were too primitive and of very short range. It was designed to fight big and slow soviet bombers. The weapon system was so primitive they used an nuclear unguided rocket a la WW2 (the Genie) to assure target destruction.
It was OK as interceptor for the 50s and first 60s but it was obsolete against the new generation of Migs.
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