Historian gets 3 years in prison for Holocaust denial

[Arrian]

I agree with much of your post. This, however:

As the average American about Germans or Germany and the first thing out of their mouths is "Nazi."

I don't see at all. I'd wager that "BMW" or "Mercedes-Benz" might pop out first, actually

-Arrian

[joncha]

Don't mention the war!

[Wycoff]

Originally posted by Arrian
I don't see at all. I'd wager that "BMW" or "Mercedes-Benz" might pop out first, actually

-Arrian

I'm just going off of my experience.

[Arrian]

And I responded with mine. Neither of us can really make any sort of assertion concerning the "average American," then.

-Arrian

[Wycoff]

Originally posted by Arrian
And I responded with mine. Neither of us can really make any sort of assertion concerning the "average American," then.

-Arrian

I guess not.

From my experience, the people who don't auotmatically think Nazi when Germany is mentioned are the better educated, better traveled Americans, many of whom have been to Germany. The ones who do automatically respond with "Nazi" are the ones with poorer educations, the ones that haven't traveled to Germany. They tend to be more conservative / knee jerk patriotic Americans, the "heartland" types who haven't left the states and who have never driven a Mercedes.

I just figure that there are more people in this country who are poorly educated and knee-jerk patriotic than there are well traveled, educated Americans. That's why I said "average"

[germanos]

Originally posted by Wycoff


I see little basic difference between the Nazi goals of Lebensraum and the Manifest Destiny of the United States.

Does this 'Manifest Destiny' call for a war of aggression, mass deportations of those conquered if they were lucky or extermination if they were deemed even inferiour to serve the 'Herrenvolk'?

Few ideoligies are as evil as Nazism, and even less saw so many followers.


If anything, nations and people should follow the German example of redemption, and the last thing we should do is to call upon them to stop their scrutiny of their past and present. The world would be better off.

[Wycoff]

Originally posted by germanos
Does this 'Manifest Destiny' call for a war of aggression, mass deportations of those conquered if they were lucky or extermination if they were deemed even inferiour to serve the 'Herrenvolk'?

Pretty much.

[germanos]

Originally posted by Wycoff


Pretty much.

Then I suggest you follow the German example and bow your head in shame.

[Wycoff]

Originally posted by germanos
Then I suggest you follow the German example and bow your head in shame.

See, you've just made my point for me.

It's not like American history on this issue is hidden or something. Anyone can read about it, yet Americans aren't expected to feel perpetually guilty for their past. Germans are, for doing basically what the Americans did, except in Europe and 60 years later. I can't really understand the justification for the distinction.

[germanos]

Who says they have too?

They do nevertheless.

[Arrian]

I quickly googled Manifest Destiny for some links. These look pretty good:

http://www.pbs.org/kera/usmexicanwar/dialogues/prelude/manifest/d2deng.html

http://www.pbs.org/kera/usmexicanwar/dialogues/prelude/manifest/d2eeng.html

[Arrian]

The guilt ought to go away after a while. Bear in mind that WWII is a lot more recent. Guilt of later generations for something that was done before they were born is silly. That doesn't mean you don't examine what happened and learn from it...

-Arrian

[Imran Siddiqui]

Originally posted by germanos
Does this 'Manifest Destiny' call for a war of aggression, mass deportations of those conquered if they were lucky or extermination if they were deemed even inferiour to serve the 'Herrenvolk'?

Uh... yeah. "The only good Indian is a dead Indian" was said by one of the US's most famous generals, Phillip Sheridan. The Cherokee were forced to walk hundreds of miles to a new 'reservation' in what is now known as the "Trail of Tears". Sioux were butchered after the US Civil War, especially at Wounded Knee.

Native Americans were horded into reservations or killed if they were in the way of the white man. They were savages and had to be swept aside.

The only thing worse about the Nazis is that they did it with far more efficiency.

[Wycoff]

Originally posted by germanos
Who says they have too?

Pretty much everyone. They're history's bad guys. They're the people that other societies point to and say "at least we're not them." Imagine the uproar if a German politician publicly pointed out what we've just discussed.

That's why there's a Holocaust museum in Washington, D.C. and not a museum dedicated solely to the memory of the terror and agony the United States caused the Native Americans to suffer through.

[germanos]

I think I misunderstood you.

nothing to see here, pass on...