How is this okay? (Muslim Rioting)

[Winston]

Make no mistake, it's you I'm sidestepping, Zoidiebaby.

[BlackCat]

Originally posted by Zoid


And by religious dogma I assume you mean islam? No way that Israel- Palestine conflict is about conflicting religious dogma.

mainly, no, and if yes, then it's between jews and muslims, not the west.

Or the war against Iraq or Afghanistan? State terrorism is as bad as any other terrorism.

The afghanistan taleban regime actually asked for it through 9/11 and it wasn't executed by westeners but by local muslims (ok heavily aided by western airforces).

Saying that the war in iraq is a war against muslims is pretty stupid since that country actually was one of the most secular countries in ME.


About that adress you gave - nah I don't want to support your crazy republican dreams

[Zoid]

Winston, all right if you don´t want to play...

[Zoid]

Originally posted by BlackCat


mainly, no, and if yes, then it's between jews and muslims, not the west.

The afghanistan taleban regime actually asked for it through 9/11 and it wasn't executed by westeners but by local muslims (ok heavily aided by western airforces).

But it wasn´t Afghanistan that attacked the US in 9/11. Now was it?

Saying that the war in iraq is a war against muslims is pretty stupid since that country actually was one of the most secular countries in ME.

The oil was of course a crucial factor. But the excuse Bush gave for attacking was that the country was harbouring and supporting muslim terrorists (just like Afghanistan) thus it could be considered to be a war against islam. In fact the whole War on Terror thing is directed against islam. Islam is considered a breeding ground for terrorism and a direct and very real threat against american interests in the Middle East and Asia.

About that adress you gave - nah I don't want to support your crazy republican dreams

It´s true, I´m dating Princess Madeleine. In secret of course, I don´t want it to get out.

[BlackCat]

Originally posted by Zoid


But it wasn´t Afghanistan that attacked the US in 9/11. Now was it?

Nope, they just make the mistake to give them bases and support.

The oil was of course a crucial factor. But the excuse Bush gave for attacking was that the country was harbouring and supporting muslim terrorists (just like Afghanistan) thus it could be considered to be a war against islam. In fact the whole War on Terror thing is directed against islam. Islam is considered a breeding ground for terrorism and a direct and very real threat against american interests in the Middle East and Asia.

Oh, the good oil ghost. It really make me ROFLMAO every time it is mentioned. If the yanks really was interested in the oil in iraq, then they would have stopped the sanctions an simply bought it If you really want to be paranoid, then the yanks attacked iraq to prevent it from delivering oil and thereby pressing the price up.

You are quite right - fighting against muslim based terrorists are of course a war against all muslims - I assume that you therefore quite agree with all the cartoons that JP printed.

I think that you are a little slobby, you have forgotten to mention WMD's.

It´s true, I´m dating Princess Madeleine. In secret of course, I don´t want it to get out.

The people demands pics

[Elok]

This is a fun flamewar. I think I'll sit back and watch it with a snack. Freedish Fish.

[Whoha]

Re: Re: Re: Re: How is this okay? (Muslim Rioting)

Originally posted by Zoid
Start with the crusades and work your way forward...

Of course that neglects to mention the muslim invasion of Europe ~4 centuries earlier.

[Hueij]

Oh, the good oil ghost. It really make me ROFLMAO every time it is mentioned. If the yanks really was interested in the oil in iraq, then they would have stopped the sanctions an simply bought it If you really want to be paranoid, then the yanks attacked iraq to prevent it from delivering oil and thereby pressing the price up.

If not for oil then can you tell me the real reason? And don't come up with WMD's or the War on Terrorism.

[BlackCat]

Originally posted by Hueij

Oh, the good oil ghost. It really make me ROFLMAO every time it is mentioned. If the yanks really was interested in the oil in iraq, then they would have stopped the sanctions an simply bought it If you really want to be paranoid, then the yanks attacked iraq to prevent it from delivering oil and thereby pressing the price up.

If not for oil then can you tell me the real reason? And don't come up with WMD's or the War on Terrorism.

Well, since you denies me the right to give the reasons for the war, then the answer must be : there are none.

[notyoueither]

Originally posted by Spiffor

Ask Datajack, he's the one who brought up the "millions of Christians and Jews" killed by Muslims (the only occurence I see where it could have happened, and I don't even know if they were genocidial at the time, is the Arabic Conquest). he's also the one who brought up the charia laws under which Christians and Jews had to live.

Some of which are currently enforced in some countries.

[Hueij]

Well, if you come up with WMD's or the WoT, I don't see why I can't come up with Oil. I mean, they all don't make sense, so there nust be another reason, a reason that escapes me.

[notyoueither]

Originally posted by Spiffor
I had the feeling that you seriously believed Zoid (as well as millions of liberals all across the west) was excusing religious violence on the grounds that it's our own fault for being enlightened. If that is your actual worldview, it is utterly off the mark. It is the kind of "they hate us because of our FREEDOM!" propaganda that led so many people not to think twice about the war in iraq (which most Yanks now understand to be a terrible idea). Since I kinda like you, I find it sad that you fall in propaganda traps that are meant to make you easily manipulable.

There is something perverse in emphasising understanding based on legitimate grievances for unreasonable reactions which are based on invented affronts.

I believe you. French Algeria, Israel, The Suez crisis, Soviet Afghanistan, American bases in KSA, French laws restricting expression, etc... might all be things that Muslims can and should be pissed off about...

But what in tarnation do they have to do with a Danish Imam who took ~120 pictures on a tour of the ME when only the twelve had not provoked an outcry, and how can burning embassies and the murder of people who aren't even Danes because of the invented provocation be 'understood'?

[notyoueither]

Originally posted by Hueij
Well, if you come up with WMD's or the WoT, I don't see why I can't come up with Oil. I mean, they all don't make sense, so there nust be another reason, a reason that escapes me.

Regional power politics, which do have a lot to do with oil, but 'taking over' the Iraqi oil fields certainly wasn't it.

[BlackCat]

Originally posted by Hueij
Well, if you come up with WMD's or the WoT, I don't see why I can't come up with Oil. I mean, they all don't make sense, so there nust be another reason, a reason that escapes me.

Oh, I don't mind if you come up with the oil story, but I just don't consider it credible because it doesn't make sense. If the us just wanted the oil, they could easily have lifted the embargo, and if they didn't wanted the iraqui oil on the market, they could just keep up the embargo.

Have you ever considered that the WMD fear was serious ? Forget about what is currently known - that isn't relevant - the only thing that is relevant is what the saddam regime presented and I really don't care if it only was in the dreams of saddams sleeps. If he had acces to such I'm in no doubt that he would have used them.

[notyoueither]

The sanctions were going to end, one day or another. The US also wants(ed) to get their bases out of KSA.

Leaving Saddam and his sons in charge after the sanctions, and leaving the rest of the Arabian peninsula unprotected was most likely not something the Bush and Blair administrations wanted to allow.

There, that's at least as plausible as 'they did it for Iraqi oil' nonsense.