CANPOL: Today is election day

[Ben Kenobi]

Actually, I have to admit thinking that Martin would do a better job then Chretien for the same reason as Flubber.

[Fake Boris]

British Columbia makes a bit less than half of what Alberta makes, and its population is 33% higher.

This said, they seem to be doing quite well, with a balanced budget and 3.6% projected growth.

[Ben Kenobi]

This said, they seem to be doing quite well, with a balanced budget and 3.6% projected growth.

Yeah, we were in awful shape a few years ago, but if we get used to racking up surpluses, we can make headway on our debt.

It's about 25% of our provincial GDP, which is not unreasonable, but still higher then we'd like.

[Kontiki]

Originally posted by Ben Kenobi


As opposed to British Columbia?

Interesting, the numbers I get are 30 billion in total revenue and about 2 billion of that in resource revenue. We have lots of resources, offshore oil and the like, the problem is that Alberta makes better use of them then we do.

I don't see why BC can't eliminate their debt and their sales tax.

Not sure where you get your numbers from, because mine are straight from the government.

http://www.finance.gov.ab.ca/business/budget/2005/2005_budget_in_brief.html#expense

Oil, currently, is far more lucrative than any other resource BC could exploit, and it's far cheaper, easier and faster to develop that on land than offshore. I will, however, agree with you that BC should more actively explore the possibility of offshore drilling.

[Flubber]

Originally posted by Ben Kenobi


As opposed to British Columbia?

We have lots of resources, offshore oil and the like,

Hmm BC generally has a much smaller oil industry than Alberta

AS for offshore oil, there has not even been exploration permitted for years and years so while the area is considered prospective, they really have no idea what might be out there

[Tingkai]

Originally posted by Ben Kenobi


As opposed to British Columbia?

Interesting, the numbers I get are 30 billion in total revenue and about 2 billion of that in resource revenue. We have lots of resources, offshore oil and the like, the problem is that Alberta makes better use of them then we do.

I don't see why BC can't eliminate their debt and their sales tax.

Do you actually think that BC has the same amount of oil as Alberta? Do you think that BC can generate revenue from its resources that Alberta gets from its oil?

Alberta has a luxury that most provinces, states and countries do not have.

The idea that cutting taxes will automatically generate economic growth is a dangerous myth. It was proven wrong 80 years ago and governments that have tried it have routinely created more problems.

Look at the "Liberals" in BC. They gave massive tax cuts to the rich and all that it did was create a massive, record breaking deficit.

People tend to think that high costs always leads to a shrinking economy, but that is not the case. The major cities that are the most prosperous tend to be places where the cost of doing business is high.

The problem with BC is that it has failed to attract and keep outside investment and failed to keep its entreprenuers, particularly immigrants with business expertise.

EDIT: Three of us posting the same concept at about the same time

[Flubber]

Originally posted by Kontiki
Oil, currently, is far more lucrative than any other resource BC could exploit,

very true

Originally posted by Kontiki
and it's far cheaper, easier and faster to develop that on land than offshore.

Also true-- An onshore find can come into production in days after it is discovered (oil being trucked) or a little longer for gas if there is a nearby pipeline.

Offshore east coast the timing has been more in the range of dozens of years. The reality is that after a discovery, you likely need several more wells to ensure the discovery is of sufficient size to warrant building a multi-billion dollar facility. Offshore BC should be cheaper

Originally posted by Kontiki
I will, however, agree with you that BC should more actively explore the possibility of offshore drilling.

Their biggest problem is that much of the area would be federal jurisdiction when it comes to ownership and ALL of the offshore would be subject to significant federal regulatory overview. The result is that BC can do very little alone.

Even if they were willing to grant drilling authorizations, the feds could tie things up for years.

Add in issues related to native consultation and OUCH !!!

[Kontiki]

Not to mention the environmental concerns which tend to be much louder in BC than anywhere else in Canada.

[Ben Kenobi]

Not sure where you get your numbers from, because mine are straight from the government.

http://www.finance.gov.ab.ca/busine...ef.html#expense

Oil, currently, is far more lucrative than any other resource BC could exploit, and it's far cheaper, easier and faster to develop that on land than offshore. I will, however, agree with you that BC should more actively explore the possibility of offshore drilling.

Those are BC numbers. Sorry for not clarifying. BC has about 30 million in revenue and about 2 billion specifically from resource extraction.

[Ben Kenobi]

Do you actually think that BC has the same amount of oil as Alberta? Do you think that BC can generate revenue from its resources that Alberta gets from its oil?

Including the amounts from the Peace River region and offshore by the Queen Charlottes? Call me an optimist, but I think we should be able to find around the same amount, and eventually be able to generate significant income from the oil.

The idea that cutting taxes will automatically generate economic growth is a dangerous myth. It was proven wrong 80 years ago and governments that have tried it have routinely created more problems.

80 years ago, they raised tariffs on imports to protect domestic industries, the problem with that is that the tariff barriers ended up hurting everyone.

Look at the "Liberals" in BC. They gave massive tax cuts to the rich and all that it did was create a massive, record breaking deficit.

No, we have a surplus. Even in the moribund north where I am now, employment is starting an uptick. We are in much better shape, growing faster then most of the rest of Canada, rather then stagnant to no growth under the NDP.

People tend to think that high costs always leads to a shrinking economy, but that is not the case. The major cities that are the most prosperous tend to be places where the cost of doing business is high.

This is why a city like Calgary of half the population of Vancouver has more head offices? The major cities are prosperous because of a concentration of population, and specialisation. People can afford to do different jobs, because other people do the jobs they would otherwise have to do themselves.

I look at my town which has great difficulty sustaining a public transit system, as compared to Vancouver. Services are greater where the population and tax base more then compensates for these services. If the town taxes it's base heavier then other towns, then that town will lose a competitive advantage.

The problem with BC is that it has failed to attract and keep outside investment and failed to keep its entreprenuers, particularly immigrants with business expertise.

You can make more money in Alberta, for less risk, and less investment. I'm one of those young folks who are dissatisfied, but so far my fate has tied me here.

[Ben Kenobi]

Also true-- An onshore find can come into production in days after it is discovered (oil being trucked) or a little longer for gas if there is a nearby pipeline.

Offshore east coast the timing has been more in the range of dozens of years. The reality is that after a discovery, you likely need several more wells to ensure the discovery is of sufficient size to warrant building a multi-billion dollar facility. Offshore BC should be cheaper

We have an oil and gas moratorium. It was interesting at the session of the BC youth parliament I attended, now 7 years ago. Despite the preponderance of Lower Mainland residents, we were split on retaining the moratorium, a result that really shocked me. I was certain that the green kids would greatly outvote us, but I guess we were loud enough to swing some votes.

The first thing that needs to be killed is the oil and gas moratorium.

Their biggest problem is that much of the area would be federal jurisdiction when it comes to ownership and ALL of the offshore would be subject to significant federal regulatory overview. The result is that BC can do very little alone.

Even if they were willing to grant drilling authorizations, the feds could tie things up for years.

Add in issues related to native consultation and OUCH !!!

Native consultation is one of the biggest hassles impeding development here in BC. What we need to do is to settle things via treaties and the like, and put a time limit on the negotations, so that the bargaining is done in good faith. This way we can give the Natives a good deal at the same time allowing for some of these projects to be started.

[joncha]

How the hell is putting time limits on negotiations bargaining in good faith?

[notyoueither]

http://www.thestar.com/NASApp/cs/ContentServer?pagename=thestar/Layout/Article_Type1&c=Article&cid=1138056611271&call_pageid=970599109774&col=Columnist969907618300

Conservatives' changes no big deal
Jan. 24, 2006. 01:00 AM
RICHARD GWYN

The single biggest change Stephen Harper will implement as Prime Minister now that the election is over will be to take steps to ensure that Canadians have less to do with each other.

Devolution of a sizeable slice of federal revenues to the provinces (to cure the so-called "fiscal deficit"), as well as a general contraction of Ottawa's activities so that it has less and less to do with domestic affairs, constitutes the entirely open agenda that the Conservatives bring with them to office.

As far as most Canadians will be concerned, their real government will henceforth be their provincial government with the federal government performing more and more of a symbolic role, respected but remote, a bit like the Governor General.

This sounds like a pretty dramatic change. Many commentators are already lamenting the impending irrelevance of Ottawa and therefore of a hole appearing in our national centre.

The intriguing fact about this change is that it's actually so small.

The first reason why it's no big deal is that it's just about happened already. The Canada of today is already the most decentralized nation-state in the world (Switzerland might be more so, though I doubt it). In no other country does the central government account for so small a share of total government spending. We are the only country with no national dimension to our education system.

Quebec has already achieved sovereignty-association. It's hard to think of anything Quebec cannot now do as a mere province that it would need to be a fully independent nation to accomplish — other than send an ambassador to the United Nations to deliver speeches that no one would listen to.

For a post-modern state of the kind Canada has been for some time now, accommodating governmental illogicalities of this sort are a snap, not least because we're so marvellously adept at pretending nothing has changed.

The second reason why Harper's planned "revolution" in federal-provincial relations will be a minor hiccup is much the more interesting one.

It turns out that having less and less to do with each other outside of our provincial baronies does not in any way move us further apart from each other, nor make us more different from each other.

Consider again Quebec. At the very moment that Quebecers have become virtually sovereign, they have never been more like other Canadians. They are almost now more typically Canadian than the rest of us — more liberal, more social democrat, more opposed to the Iraq war, more supportive of same-sex marriages, and the rest of those lovingly-claimed "Canadian values."

Alberta is useful as an illustration. Premier Ralph Klein constantly blames Ottawa for preventing him from experimenting with two-tier medicine. In fact, Alberta has all the money it needs to ignore any tut-tutting by Ottawa. The reason Klein only ever talks rather than walks the medicare reform walk is because his own Albertans favour one-tier medicine little differently from those "semi-socialist" Ontarians and the others.

Our provincially run education systems illustrate the same point. All are free to follow wholly different curriculums and pedagogical practices. But they are all strikingly similar, even Quebec's once distinctive system increasingly resembling those everywhere else.

Canadians, this is to say, are very Canadian. To all be free to be as different as we want and yet be so alike in our values and habits and attitudes is surely as post-modern as it's possible to get.

Our real two solitudes now are Confederation, which almost everyone complains about, and Canadianism, which everyone thinks is grand. That they are actually one and the same is an incidental, post-modern detail.


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Richard Gwyn's column appears Tuesdays and Fridays. gwynR@sympatico.ca

Rather wow at the prospect of a Liberal party organ spokesman accepting reality.

Perhaps it is a honeymoon, but I am detecting a willingness to look at alternatives to more of the same old Liberal formulae.

[Fake Boris]

Wow, this article sucks

[Richelieu]

Originally posted by Oncle Boris
Wow, this article sucks

I understand when an author bends or exagerates facts a little bit in order to get a point across. This guy is living in the twilight zone.