CanPol: Race to the Finish

[notyoueither]

Facts are a *****.

[KrazyHorse]

Facts are stupid things.

[notyoueither]

A fact is a fact. When you have a fact, it is a proven fact, and that is a good fact.

/Chretien

[KrazyHorse]

Almost.

Have it saved somewhere. One sec...

[KrazyHorse]

A proof is a proof. What kind of a proof? It's a proof. A proof is a proof. And when you have a good proof, it's because it's proven

[Asher]

Une preuve est une preuve. Quel genre de preuve? C'est une preuve. Une preuve est une preuve. Et quand vous avez une bonne preuve, elle est parce qu'on le prouve

[KrazyHorse]

The man was a genius with gibberish.

[notyoueither]

Reposting this. I'd like to hear what people have to say. I've never seen an entire federal election Godwined before.
---

Oh goody! He only approved the transcript!

http://www.cbc.ca/story/canadavotes2006/national/2006/01/12/elxn-libs-research-military.html

Martin says he only approved transcript of controversial 'soldiers' ad
Last Updated Thu, 12 Jan 2006 23:44:32 EST
CBC News
Liberal Leader Paul Martin told CBC News he only approved the transcript of a controversial ad suggesting the Tories would post armed soldiers on the streets of Canadian cities.

During a CBC News Town Hall meeting hosted by Peter Mansbridge on Thursday, Martin said the ad was pulled when he saw the finished product and realized it could be misconstrued.

But earlier in the day Martin made no reference of only signing off on the transcript, saying he approved the ad. He said it was pulled "because we felt that there were better ads. That's essentially it."

The ad, which was briefly posted on the Liberal website, features an ominous drumbeat underneath a voice-over that says: "Stephen Harper actually announced he wants to increase military presence in our cities. Canadian cities. Soldiers with guns. In our cities. In Canada."

The ad, which was never broadcast, stems from the Conservative platform which calls for 100 regular troops and 400 reservists to be based in major Canadian cities. But, according to that plan, their purpose would be only for humanitarian means or disaster relief efforts.

Martin said the ad was intended to criticize the Conservatives' policy, saying it would spread soldiers too far apart across the country.

But Mansbridge questioned Martin further about the ad, saying it makes no mention of policy and instead highlights the fact that would be soldiers in Canadian cities with guns.

Paul Martin answers questions from viewers.
Martin said it was when he and his campaign team saw the ad, and not just read the transcript, that they realized it was going to be misconstrued.

"When we saw what the ad looked like, it was very clear the message we were trying to convey would not be conveyed by that ad," Martin said.

This doofus couldn't tell the ad sucked based on the 23 words in the transcript? Were the words overly large?

[KrazyHorse]

I know. Pathetic...

Harper's crap is just as bad...

[Flubber]

Originally posted by KrazyHorse
I know. Pathetic...

Harper's crap is just as bad...

Actually in this election Martin has been by far more craptastic

[Flubber]

Arte some Liberals giving up?

Or uis this just a ploy to de-energize the opposition to them??

Some Liberals brace for the worst By MICHAEL DEN TANDT AND CAMPBELL CLARK

Friday, January 13, 2006 Posted at 5:22 AM EST

From Friday's Globe and Mail

OTTAWA — With 10 days to go in the federal election campaign, some veteran Liberals are openly conceding defeat, while others have begun quietly laying the groundwork for a leadership contest they believe will "renew" the party.

At the same time, senior Liberals are undertaking what amounts to a pre-election postmortem on Paul Martin's two-year tenure as Prime Minister and the current campaign.

"People are talking to me and saying, 'Well, who do you think can do well,' " former Liberal cabinet minister Herb Dhaliwal said. "I think if Paul Martin is defeated, he'll have no choice but to leave, particularly if there's a strong minority for the Conservatives."

Canada's ambassador to Washington, Frank McKenna, former finance minister John Manley, former fisheries minister Brian Tobin, Ontario cabinet minister Joe Volpe, Toronto-area MP Maurizio Bevilacqua and author Michael Ignatieff were quietly testing the leadership waters before the campaign began, and several have become more active since, insiders say.


"There's no question it's happening," said former Liberal MP John Nunziata, who held a Commons seat for 16 years, eventually sitting as an Independent, before losing in 2000. "There are people meeting surreptitiously -- certainly nothing very public. But each of the candidates, potential candidates, are working the lines. People are putting organizations together."

Mr. McKenna, in particular, appears to be gathering support. While he has been careful not to say that he's running for the leadership, he has been keeping in touch with key Liberals, insiders say.

"For a guy like McKenna, if he's calling people, it sends a message," one Liberal operative said. "I hear people are pushing him, promoting him and willing to work for him."

Recent polls have shown surging support for Stephen Harper's Conservatives, particularly in Quebec -- fuelling talk of a Tory majority.

Not surprisingly, much of the internal criticism of the Martin team comes from loyalists of former prime minister Jean Chrétien, from whom Mr. Martin wrested control of the party in 2003. Said one former Chrétien cabinet minister: "Harper's been able to bring people together. Martin hasn't."

The latest Strategic Counsel poll suggests increasing pessimism among professed Liberal supporters: 40 per cent of Liberals say they think the Conservatives will win on Jan. 23. That number has nearly doubled, from 23 per cent, in less than a week.

Mr. Martin, however, refused to concede defeat. "We were in the same position in the last election," he said in interviews yesterday. "And there was about the same time to go."

Liberal insiders say the decade-long war between Mr. Martin and Mr. Chrétien -- and Mr. Martin's failure to heal the wounds after his accession -- has hobbled the Liberal campaign. Many party organizers are sitting on the sidelines. Others were not asked to help.

One of these is Senator Jim Munsen, Mr. Chrétien's former communications director.

"Last time, I was asked, [strategist] Peter Donolo and myself, to participate in strategic conference calls, and this time I'm not," Mr. Munsen said. "But I wasn't surprised, because they have their own team, and that's the way it is."

Said Mr. Dhaliwal: "They decided, for whatever reason, that they needed to look like a whole new government and distance themselves from the Chrétien years, and get rid of all the people who have a national profile and could be helpful in the campaign. And they have not united the party."

Andrew Kania, Ontario organizer for Mr. Manley's failed 2003 leadership bid, said that if the Conservatives win, Liberals expect Mr. Martin to resign.

"At the end of the day, formally, I don't think there's going to be any campaign to remove Martin. But if there's a Conservative minority, how does he stay?" Mr. Kania said. "Everybody's quietly saying that if there's a Conservative minority or worse, he has to go."

Mr. Kania said that he has spoken to ethnic communities in Ottawa in the past two weeks, but said he networks "regardless of whether Mr. Manley is running."

"But it is obviously my hope and my expectation that he runs when it becomes appropriate, and I expect him to win."

A Conservative victory would force his party to rebuild, Mr. Kania said.

"It means it's going to be time to revitalize the Liberal Party. We're going to need to focus on the structure of the party. We're going to need to focus upon new policy and we're going to need to self-examine as to why this [loss] just took place."

Mr. Kania said he still believes the Liberals could win a minority.

"A lot of people want the Liberals to have a time-out this time, and they're not impressed with Martin personally. And I think that's a different conclusion than you actually want Harper to get a majority."

Some Liberals say the race is over, and argue a loss on Jan. 23 would benefit the party in the longer term. Some key thinkers, one Liberal senator said, "have been talking about the idea that maybe now is a perfect opportunity for renewal."

Others are less sanguine. Many Liberal MPs in Ontario are worried about their chances of winning. And the fingers are pointing at the national campaign.

One Liberal MP said he's pretty sure that Martin strategists are wearing "protective vests." And he said he feels no sympathy for Mr. Martin.

This same type of story appeared in Calgary Sun with a headline alone the lines of " Senior Liberals concede defeat"

I have seen a number of stories now that talk about the Chretien Liberals sabatoging this campaign.

[Wezil]

The knives are coming out.

Martin is a good organiser but crap PM.

[Richelieu]

Watch Tobin's comeback.

The bad thing about this is that we're getting the exact opposite of what we wanted: Martin hasn't had the time to replace the Chretien libs - those that are the most corrupted IMO - with his own organization guys. And now all the talking heads from the the old era - Tobin, Manley, Nunziata - are coming back to precipitate the end and feed on the corpse.

[Ben Kenobi]

And when we become dependent on the private system to the point where public hospitals are incapable of dealing with the demand (as opposed to now, where they're simply badly strained) then how much control will we really have over the price we pay for that service to an industry which shows a predilection for increasing prices in a private market?

The same way we have control over any price on the market. You decide whether you are willing to pay the price charged.

If prices rise beyond what people are willing to pay for medical care, then the prices are going to have to drop or these clinics are going to go out of business.

I don't see this privatisation as a bad thing, since it will mean efficient delivery of health care, as opposed to our current system.

[KrazyHorse]

Originally posted by Flubber


Actually in this election Martin has been by far more craptastic

I know. I was talking about the specific article I posted where Harper attempted to explain away his ********ing of the American right as nothing more than youthful hijinks...

In that, he was as crappy as Martin during his explanation of the travesty of the "soldiers in our cities" advertisement...