Why Protestant and Jewish Families Rule the Earth

[Philosophiser]

Originally posted by Odin
Fundies always forget the context of the time the NT was codified, and forget that what eventually ended up in the NT had more to do with church politics than theology (which is why the gospel of St. Thomas got cut). The crazies who say the bible is the inerrant word of God miss that inconvenient fact.

You either believe the scripture is God's word or you do not. There are plenty of reasons to believe it is. Scripture was already compiled by 150AD, with only the book of James being somewhat spurious and not universally accepted. Luther had his doubts about it. God's word exists independent of the politics of men, and it is unbreakable, preserved by God and providentially compiled by Him through whatever human instruments He chooses to use.

You have the following books to choose from for revelation: Bible, Koran, Mormon. Take your pick. The elect of God will choose the right one, and of course the right one has the most evidence to back itself up. Or, you can reject all of the claims of revelation and become a deist or an atheist- but you better be sure you are right or you will burn in hell forever.

[Philosophiser]

Originally posted by Flip McWho
Heres another question for you philosophiser;

Why don't you believe in the book of mormon and follow that as well? Afterall thats another testament of our lord and saviour Jesus Christ.

Book of Mormon contradicts the Bible, esp in areas of soteriology. Bible teaches we are justified by faith. Book of Mormon teaches baptism+works are necessary, even if you already have faith. There is also nothing in it that proves its from God- ie no fulfilled prophecies, nothing like the amazing story of the crucifixion, etc...

[Philosophiser]

You have the following books to choose from for revelation: Bible, Koran, Mormon. Take your pick. The elect of God will choose the right one, and of course the right one has the most evidence to back itself up. Or, you can reject all of the claims of revelation and become a deist or an atheist- but you better be sure you are right or you will burn in hell forever.

[Seeker]

"areas of soteriology"

By Odin's Hoary Beard, he is the same as Civ Nation!

Another Hypercalvinst Post-Millenialist SupercalaDispensationalist Expyalladociolist.

Oh and remember for these guys:

-some pots are made for breaking all to the glory of the lawd
-morality is purely a creation of the lawd, and thus arbitrary 'it's good because he SAYS it's good'

So therefore the Civvie's of the world have no problem with God willing the Fall, because all things 'redound to the greater glory of the lawd' in the end...remember just like how Pharaoh didn't 'harden his own heart' against moses, it was god that hardened pharaohs heart in order to 'glorify his name' (i.e. what's a god without some heretics to punish?)

It's strange how almost Gnostic the Calvinistic reading of the bible...all the 'bad guys' seem much more sympathetic to 'unregenerate natural man*' than the 'good guys'

*proudly unregenerate.

[Ming]

Originally posted by Philosophiser
but you better be sure you are right or you will burn in hell forever.

And if you aren't right, your body will just rot in the ground, and you will never know it. Or maybe a different god that you aren't even aware will laugh at your silly choice of religion, and condemn you to his version of life in hell...

[Elok]

Lessee, you've repeatedly said God wants us to be wealthy and have expressed the idea that material wealth is a sign of divine favor or the remnants thereof. I don't memorize the bible, but just off the top of my head, Christ says multiple times to sell all we have and give to the poor. Also, that bit about how it's easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to enter the kingdom of God. And the parable about the leper Lazarus and the rich man. You cannot serve both God and Mammon. Et cetera.

Also, don't go talking to me about "true Christianity," with your pervert Calvinism. I'm Orthodox Christian, and what I believe, they believed at the time the NT was standardized. Predestination is bunk, concocted by Calvin around the time of the renaissance, which of course is why it's called "calvinism" as opposed to being mainstream Christian doctrine. Amazing, that Christianity covered most of Europe for over a milennium, and yet something with clear Biblical PROOF was not discovered until one theologian in the north looked at a single epistle, right?

The reason? Well, based on my admittedly quick reading, it appears that Romans 9 is referring to physical wealth, not any ideas of predestination. The "potter hath power" to give honor and dishonor, but in context it makes far more sense to read that as physical prosperity than as some element of fate, which contradicts free will. E.g., the same passage refers to "raising up" Pharaoh, to make an example of him. If that passage is meant to indicate the Elect, then "elect" is a code word for "tolerated for the moment, allowed physical prosperity, but to receive an incredible smackdown in proper time." No thanks.

[Philosophiser]

Originally posted by Ming


And if you aren't right, your body will just rot in the ground, and you will never know it. Or maybe a different god that you aren't even aware will laugh at your silly choice of religion, and condemn you to his version of life in hell...

Its far sillier to mock God and believe life is a meaningless "evolution" than to accept His infallible revelation and His awesome authority.

[Philosophiser]

Originally posted by Elok
Lessee, you've repeatedly said God wants us to be wealthy and have expressed the idea that material wealth is a sign of divine favor or the remnants thereof. I don't memorize the bible, but just off the top of my head, Christ says multiple times to sell all we have and give to the poor. Also, that bit about how it's easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to enter the kingdom of God. And the parable about the leper Lazarus and the rich man. You cannot serve both God and Mammon. Et cetera.

Also, don't go talking to me about "true Christianity," with your pervert Calvinism. I'm Orthodox Christian, and what I believe, they believed at the time the NT was standardized. Predestination is bunk, concocted by Calvin around the time of the renaissance, which of course is why it's called "calvinism" as opposed to being mainstream Christian doctrine. Amazing, that Christianity covered most of Europe for over a milennium, and yet something with clear Biblical PROOF was not discovered until one theologian in the north looked at a single epistle, right?

The reason? Well, based on my admittedly quick reading, it appears that Romans 9 is referring to physical wealth, not any ideas of predestination. The "potter hath power" to give honor and dishonor, but in context it makes far more sense to read that as physical prosperity than as some element of fate, which contradicts free will. E.g., the same passage refers to "raising up" Pharaoh, to make an example of him. If that passage is meant to indicate the Elect, then "elect" is a code word for "tolerated for the moment, allowed physical prosperity, but to receive an incredible smackdown in proper time." No thanks.

Elok, the point of Romans 9 is that God hardens some hearts to damnation and judgment, and softens others for mercy. And then at the end he specifically says those softened for mercy are those called, not only from the Jews, but also the Gentiles to believe in Jesus. The rest are hardened and damned. You must have blinders on.

Secondly, the rich man eye of a needle passage actually intends the exact opposite of what you claim it teaches. Look at the next verse. The Apostles are amazed "WHO THEN CAN BE SAVED?" They were amazed that if a rich man couldn't be saved, then who could be saved?

23 Then said Jesus unto his disciples, Verily I say unto you, That a rich man shall hardly enter into the kingdom of heaven. 24 And again I say unto you, It is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle, than for a rich man to enter into the kingdom of God. 25 When his disciples heard it, they were exceedingly amazed, saying, Who then can be saved? 26 But Jesus beheld them, and said unto them, With men this is impossible; but with God all things are possible.

Why were they surprised at this, why were they amazed that its impossible for a rich man to enter the Kingdom of Heaven?... because the Old Testament teaches that wealth and prosperity are often (not always, but often) signs of God's favor. And then Jesus states "With man this is impossible, but with God all things are possible." Jesus is saying- EVEN THOSE YOU THINK are rich and favored of God cannot enter the kingdom unless God makes it happen by forgiving their sins. IE, those who are the most righteous of men, rich in good works and rich with money, still can't enter the kingdom unless God has forgiven their sins.

This is emphasized even more by teh fact that the rich man that Jesus spoke to just before saying this was also "rich" with good deeds. Notice:
16 And, behold, one came and said unto him, Good Master, what good thing shall I do, that I may have eternal life? 17 And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments. 18 He saith unto him, Which? Jesus said, Thou shalt do no murder, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness, 19 Honour thy father and thy mother: and, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. 20 The young man saith unto him, All these things have I kept from my youth up but HE LACKED ONE THING. What was it? He was unable to give it all up and FOLLOW (BELIEVE) in Jesus. Believing in Jesus is essential to obtain forgiveness.

[Bill3000]

By Odin's Hoary Beard, he is the same as Civ Nation!

Another Hypercalvinst Post-Millenialist SupercalaDispensationalist Expyalladociolist.

*smack* He already said that he was CivNation. Some people...

[Ming]

Originally posted by Philosophiser
Its far sillier to mock God and believe life is a meaningless "evolution" than to accept His infallible revelation and His awesome authority.

You have no proof of your God's existence...
Believe what you want... and respect other people's right to believe what they want.

If I hear anymore "you are all going to burn in hell" crap from you, it will be the last crap you post on this site.

Keep your preaching to a single thread, and show respect to other people's opinions, or find some place else to spew your stuff.

[Arrian]

I urge everyone to consider the reality of a life without Christ- it is a life of meaninglessness...

We, humans, define what is meaningful for ourselves. It's pretty obvious when you step back and look - different people care more or less above various things. Furthermore, your fellow religions nutcases who call their God Allah seem to think they've got something pretty meaningful to do.

Why am I even bothering? Ah, yes, right. It's Friday, it's snowing, and I've got happy hour at the Pig's Eye to look forward to Yay! A meaningless, hedonistic day.

-Arrian

[Philosophiser]

Originally posted by Ming


You have no proof of your God's existence...
Believe what you want... and respect other people's right to believe what they want.

If I hear anymore "you are all going to burn in hell" crap from you, it will be the last crap you post on this site.

Keep your preaching to a single thread, and show respect to other people's opinions, or find some place else to spew your stuff.

Sorry but I will say unbelievers will burn in hell whenever I want. And if you ban me, then you aren't respecting MY beliefs or the beliefs of millions of Christians. I have no respect for false beliefs or beliefs that can send your soul into damnation. Nor can anyone, including socialist crazies or statists or politically correct dictators get me to consider otherwise.

Christ wins over the god of political correctness.

As far as proof goes- Ming proof isn't necessary. God can't "prove" Himself. People can always invent doubts. God could show up at your door and you could try to invent some "physical explanation" for why you don't think its God. You either believe and accept the Word of the LORD! OR YOU DO NOT!

Either way, His Sword conquers all!

[Philosophiser]

Originally posted by Arrian


We, humans, define what is meaningful for ourselves. It's pretty obvious when you step back and look - different people care more or less above various things. Furthermore, your fellow religions nutcases who call their God Allah seem to think they've got something pretty meaningful to do.

Why am I even bothering? Ah, yes, right. It's Friday, it's snowing, and I've got happy hour at the Pig's Eye to look forward to Yay! A meaningless, hedonistic day.

-Arrian

This is the kind of quote that tells you a person hasn't even begun to investigate EITHER Islam or Christianity.

[Philosophiser]

Elok,

Your beliefs are also idolatry. The EOs usually have more idolatry than even the RCs with all of their image "veneration" and bowing to graven images. The fact is that the EO Church added many manmade and idolatrous traditions in the first 500 years of Church history.

[Kuciwalker]

Philosophiser has convinced me