Immigrant Riots

[lord of the mark]

note that while the US collects data on race, and country of birth, it does not collect data on religion, and started collecting data on country of origin only fairly recently. And of course country of origin's usefulness is limited in certain cases by the absence of info on religion - thus people of Russian origin are concentrated in the Great Plains (19th century wheat farming immigrants) and in New York City - Jews. Irish origin is focused in obvious places like Boston, NYC, and Chicago, but is also widespread in upper South (mainly 18th c Ulster "Scots Irish")

[Fake Boris]

Sarkozy is such a petty *******...

[Spiffor]

Originally posted by Lawrence of Arabia
yeah, but la république also enforced parisian french on the rest of the country to wipe out breton, alsacian, savoyard and provinçal as languages. they impossed their will over the others. frenchification worked because they eliminated all language differences by force. that did not happen in spain or russia

Err, yes it did. The reason why Spain and Russia failed, while France succeded, is because France gave equal opportunities to citizens once it beat the local culture out of them. Spain and Russia continued to treat the ethnic minorities as second-class citizens.

if you dont think that there was conflict the last time these large groups were frenchified, then youre wrong. and im sure this round of frenchification will be just as brutual and hard on everyone.

More than a century has passed, and the methods have changed a bit. Cultural genocide is not en vogue in France anymore.

[muxec]

Did I miss something? Did Sweden officials say something stupid?

[Winston]

No, not to my knowledge. I was just spinning it a little further in your thread. But it honestly wouldn't surprise me if they should turn out to follow my 'suggestion'.

Better prepare to be

[lord of the mark]

Originally posted by Spiffor

Err, yes it did. The reason why Spain and Russia failed, while France succeded, is because France gave equal opportunities to citizens once it beat the local culture out of them. Spain and Russia continued to treat the ethnic minorities as second-class citizens.

Id say that the fact that the largest minority group in France, the Occitans, had their elite essentially destroyed in the 13th century had something to do with it. Bretons, say,were too weak, as compared to the Catalans and even Basques. And the crown of Aragon retained its autonomy and native elite practically to the end of the 17th c - Bretony, say, had (IIUC) a French speaking nobility much earlier than that.

Russia has the disadvantage that minorities had different religions, while French ethnic minorities were Catholic (and Hugeonots were French) Also French culture from the middle ages on was a high status culture in Europe - the Catalans always looked down on the Castilians.

[muxec]

I'm not rascist but religionist. I heard that almost all 1st generation Chinese immigrants born in USA are christians and atheists and their native language is English. Compare.

[Lawrence of Arabia]

Err, yes it did. The reason why Spain and Russia failed, while France succeded, is because France gave equal opportunities to citizens once it beat the local culture out of them. Spain and Russia continued to treat the ethnic minorities as second-class citizens.

did it? Ukrainian as a language still exists. So does Belorussian. Catalunian still exists, and so does basque. the reason why spain and russia failed was because they did not manage to wipe out these cultures. the evidence is that they still exist today.

More than a century has passed, and the methods have changed a bit. Cultural genocide is not en vogue in France anymore.

yeah, but does anything else work really and fully? over generations maybe, but not from one to the next, especially if the economic situation doesnt change much from one generation to the next.

[muxec]

did it? Ukrainian as a language still exists. So does Belorussian. Catalunian still exists, and so does basque. the reason why spain and russia failed was because they did not manage to wipe out these cultures. the evidence is that they still exist today.

Lithuanians rebeled against USSR many times, this almost undocumented war killed million and the number of Russians in Lithuania is still only 6.3%. There was much less fighting in Latvia. And we have 30% Russians there. From here you learn that you are wrong.

[Lawrence of Arabia]

why? does the lithuanian language still exist? if it does, then you cannot say that the russians russianified their minorities, because they did not manage to stamp out the language in the same way that the french did. no more language = cultural unity.

[Chemical Ollie]

Originally posted by Winston
Cue Sweden granting them asylum in 5.. 4..

When we had EU summit riots in Gothenburg 2001, busloads of foreign (well-known) rioters were expelled even before they arrived. Many of them from the Danish BZ group.

Then during the riots, one guy was shot in the liver by the police, and for a week it was unclear if he would survive at all.

So no, we don't like rioters here.

[muxec]

http://www.cia.gov/cia/publications/factbook/index.html !!!!!!!!!!!!!

Former USSR countries have the highest Literacy/Lifequality stats. Think about this. If you are anti-USSR than you must learn your own "anti-Russian" language even if ancestors did not know to read and write.

Personal examples. I studied in Shevah-Mofet: Israeli school that was once elite school for USSR immigrants but now ministry tries to "deal" with it. I can say that my IQ is 130, but I often felt stupid compared to my classmates.

One friend of mine is from Tbilisi, Georgia (Caucasus). When he came to Israel he knew Georgian as native language and Russian and English as foreign. Now he still remembers Georgian as native language but also knows Russian as native and his English and Hebrew are very good. He tried to teach me Georgian alphabet but in was not easy enough for me. He said that in Georgia, unlike in Israel, he did not need Russian.

Another friend of mine is also from Tbilisi, Georgia. She came from the same city as my first friend, just several kms away. She does not know Georgian language at all her native language is Russian. She did not feel that she needs Georgian language in Georgia.

One more example. She is 1/4 Korean 2/4 Lithuanian and 1/4 Jew. She is from Uzbekistan. She sais that many Uzbeks, mainly females say that USSR did Uzbekistan better. At least enforced female rights after centuries of muslim slavery. Many uzbeks are happy that USSR at last provided education for people. Not majority, but many. Her native language is Russian but she knows Uzbek as foreighn, as I understand not cause she intentionally lerned it but cause as person with 160IQ she understands and remebers everything she hears. Later she used her return right and retuned to Lithuania where she learned Lithuanian language. As what i heard from her Lithuania is very very Lithuanian.

[Lawrence of Arabia]

I have no idea what your point is. im trying to say that the russians didnt russianify their minoirites the way that the french did. why? because they didnt not remove their language for one. lithuanians dont feel russian even after centuries of domination. what are you trying to say?

[Pekka]

And we were under Russian rule for long time, yet we don't feel Russian. We were under Swedish rule for a long time, yet we are not Swedish. And oh, we are only about century old. Go ask Estonians if they feel Russian etc...

Go ask the folks in poorer areas of France if they feel they are French. The Algerians etc etc.. Exactly where was the successful era?

But I would agree with you to some extent that integration is the very key, but it works both ways, not only one side. In the past, everyone kind of beat down the minority culture, these days the minority cultures are starting to block the major cultures and giving friction with little room to modify themselves to fit, I think maybe somewhere in between is the integration. But when the push comes to shove, the majority rules, period.

[Lawrence of Arabia]

Go ask the folks in poorer areas of France if they feel they are French. The Algerians etc etc.. Exactly where was the successful era?

you're not thinking far back enough in history - go ask the savoyards, the bretons, the normand if they are french and they will tell you yes. no one there speaks their language anymore. the french stamped it out. there is no liberation movement in those areas to speak of. unlike the basque and catalans in spain.