It's the College Football thread!

[Imran Siddiqui]

Because they'd probably be behind another team that gets left out in the BCS standings. I think the argument would go that the one loss team that is ahead of ND in the BCS standings (I have a feeling that VTech and either LSU or UGA will win out) should go ahead of a 2 loss ND.

[DanS]

Because they'd probably be behind another team that gets left out in the BCS standings.

That sounds like an injustice due to WV's automatic bid and has nothing to do with ND. The highly BCS-ranked team is being left out because of the lowest BCS ranked team that was included.

Besides, the AP poll still rules the day. The BCS rankings are mearly a tool to determine who will be #1 in the AP poll at the end of the day, even though the AP poll is not a variable in the BCS rankings.

[Imran Siddiqui]

A few people, at best, will be angry that WVU is included. They are a member of a BCS conference. ND is taking one of the at large positions.

I guarentee you that the ire of higher ranked BCS team (Ohio State or Georgia.. or, Hell, Oregon) will be directed at Notre Dame. They know the conference championship auto bids (and WVU may well only have 1 loss at that time). The at large, however, is where they are picked from. WVU has nothing to do with which teams get picked for the two at large bids.

[Imran Siddiqui]

The BCS rankings are mearly a tool to determine who will be #1 in the AP poll at the end of the day.

They also decide the matchups in the Top 4 bowls.

[DanS]

You're looking at it all wrong. The big conferences made their pact with the devil in that they are guaranteed a BCS bid in a lean year. In turn, they give up some placement for their second-best team in a fat year.

Of course, the fans' ire may be directed at whomever they choose.

[DanS]

Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui

The BCS rankings are mearly a tool to determine who will be #1 in the AP poll at the end of the day.

They also decide the matchups in the Top 4 bowls.

No, they help decide the matchups in the Top 4 bowls.

[Imran Siddiqui]

Originally posted by DanS
You're looking at it all wrong. The big conferences made their pact with the devil in that they are guaranteed a BCS bid in a lean year. In turn, they give up some placement for their second-best team in a fat year.

That doesn't dilute any of the outrage that comes from that school and/or conference (depending on if the rest of the conference hates them). The opposite situation resulted in outrage a year back when Texas got in due to having a very very small margin in the BCS (when I guess the BCS decided the at large teams as well) over Cal.

The team with the biggest beef if Notre Dame gets in will probably be Ohio State. They lost in the last minute to Texas and lost by a TD in a hostile road game against Penn State (which is a Top 5 team). They can convincingly make the case that their two losses were to better opponents (if Texas and USC are the same, Penn State totally outclasses Michigan State.. even if MSU upsets Penn State).

[Imran Siddiqui]

Originally posted by DanS
No, they help decide the matchups in the Top 4 bowls.

They do a bit more than help . For instance, they place 6 of the 8 team, and then only offer the bowls a choice of 6 teams to fill the other 2 spots.

If anything, the bowls help decide the matchups in the Top 4 bowls, and the BCS controls the process.

[DanS]

The team with the biggest beef if Notre Dame gets in will probably be Ohio State. They lost in the last minute to Texas and lost by a TD in a hostile road game against Penn State (which is a Top 5 team). They can convincingly make the case that their two losses were to better opponents (if Texas and USC are the same, Penn State totally outclasses Michigan State.. even if MSU upsets Penn State).

By my reading, the BCS rankings at that point (after the championship game has been chosen) are only suggestive of what might be a good matchup. They don't determine a damn thing, other than who is eligible besides those who have automatic bids. The bowls choose their matchups based on what they think will be a compelling matchup, not on who the best 2 loss team is (or whatever criteria the BAMers might choose to focus on).

[DanS]

Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui
They do a bit more than help . For instance, they place 6 of the 8 team

By my count, the rankings only place 2 (the championship game) and then help determine up to 2 more (the at-large bids).

[DanS]

If my reading of the rules is confirmed, we cannot adequately project at this time who will be playing whom (save the Rose Bowl, of course), because even the traditional hosts can be moved around depending on the backroom deals among the bowls.

[Imran Siddiqui]

By my count, the rankings only place 2 (the championship game) and then help determine up to 2 more (the at-large bids).

Read reismark's BCS posts. They are very well done and show that the BCS has far more impact than placing 2 teams and 'helping determine' 2 more. They basically decide the whole thing. The bowls get their traditional conference champs tie-ins (unless it was taken away from them by the championship game) and then have to submit a list of choices to the BCS, which have some further rules (ie, teams from same division don't play either) in choosing who plays who. The BCS runs the shebang and gives the bowls a small amount of choice. Just enough so they don't complain about how much they've given up.

[DanS]

They are very well done and show that the BCS has far more impact than placing 2 teams and 'helping determine' 2 more.

The BCS rankings only do this (i.e., the topic of what we were discussing).

Reismark's posts are very well done, but let's look at it this way: A #12 BCS-ranked ND squad could be playing a #3 BCS-ranked unbeaten Alabama squad in the Fiesta Bowl. Not a likely scenario, but possible nonetheless, based on everybody's wishes.

As to who has ultimate say-so (which "everybody" is more important than the others), reismark might know better. The web page is pretty vague on this...

The pairings established by this selection process may be adjusted by the conference and institutions participating in the BCS, in consultation with the BCS bowls and ABC, in the interest of creating the most exciting and competitive post season matchups possible. The factors considered in adjusting the pairings are the same as those considered in determining whether to move a host team into a different bowl.

[reismark]

By my reading, the Irish get an automatic at-large bid if they are in the BCS top 6.

Correct. The same rule would apply to any other independent or non-BCS-conference team.

They are eligible for an at-large bid if they are in the BCS top 12, and have 9 wins. If the Irish are eligible, they are evaluated for inclusion as an at-large team based upon a whole range of criteria ($) allowing a great deal of judgment by the bowls.

Sure, they're eligible for an at-large bid, but all that stuff about a "whole range of criteria ($)" is a load of hogwash. They have to go by the rankings except in situations where the rules require otherwise (like not being able to list a conference champion third or to match two teams from the same conference in a bowl). Unless Notre Dame is in a position to claim a bid based on the rankings, they're not going to get it. That's what I meant when I said that at least three teams above them have to lose while they win out.

You want proof of this? Look at California last year: They had the classic Big Ten/Pac-10 rivalry all patched up for weeks, and that got them nowhere when the computers screwed them in the last week of the season. The Rose Bowl should have been California/Michigan, and a Bears/Wolverines matchup would have drawn more $, but it wasn't to be - and it's because the rankings rule over all.

The question is, ND is, say, 10th in the BCS (for example), will the bowls pick them over a team which may be #5? They truely may. Of course that would end up causing a lot of outrage, but the money may be worth it.

I doubt it. The prestige factor that Notre Dame once claimed has been highly diminished over the last decade, and that's the only rationale they can claim.

Let me put it this way: The only team currently above Notre Dame in the rankings that I could justify putting the Irish in a bowl game over in "screwjob fashion" is Oregon, and even then it would be a tough sell. That's why I've been railing against the computers for screwing Notre Dame - because I think the human polls have it right in this case and the Irish should be making it in without controversy. Politics will always kill you when it gets the chance, even the great ones. And if politics doesn't, karma eventually will. (Witness Oklahoma this year for the latter.)

That sounds like an injustice due to WV's automatic bid and has nothing to do with ND. The highly BCS-ranked team is being left out because of the lowest BCS ranked team that was included.

That's the other massive problem with the BCS which I *****ed about last year and continue to ***** about this year, and I need point no further than Pittsburgh getting raped by Utah in the Fiesta last year and then completely tanking its non-conference schedule.

Sure, the Big East got massively screwed by the ACC, but facts are facts: The Big East should not have an automatic bid until the conference can prove it's worthy of it again. My standard for this would be that the conference finishes the year with at least two teams eligible for at-large BCS selection, of which they currently have none.

I guarantee you that the ire of higher ranked BCS team (Ohio State or Georgia.. or, Hell, Oregon) will be directed at Notre Dame. They know the conference championship auto bids (and WVU may well only have 1 loss at that time). The at large, however, is where they are picked from. WVU has nothing to do with which teams get picked for the two at large bids.

You might be right, but whichever team it is would be totally wrong in doing so.

The team with the biggest beef if Notre Dame gets in will probably be Ohio State. They lost in the last minute to Texas and lost by a TD in a hostile road game against Penn State (which is a Top 5 team). They can convincingly make the case that their two losses were to better opponents (if Texas and USC are the same, Penn State totally outclasses Michigan State.. even if MSU upsets Penn State).

Perhaps, but ultimately, if Notre Dame does get in on a miracle screwjob over a team higher in the rankings than them, I don't believe it will be Ohio State (but only because I think Michigan wins the Big Game this year). Remember, it's in the Big House this year, and don't sleep on Northwestern this year. It's very possible for the Buckeyes to finish 7-4.

[Imran Siddiqui]

You haven't watched the Big 10 much if you think Ohio State will lose two more games. Frankly, I think the only game that'll give them any trouble will be Michigan, and I think they win that one by 10 at least.