Prostitution

[Verres]

Originally posted by Nacht


The idea that someone who's visiting a prostitute can ask her to do what he wants en has her completely under control is a million miles away from the truth.

That isnt what I said. I meant, they feel as though they are, the delusion of power is much the same as the reality - paying someone for any kind of service gives a feeling of power, its inevitable to feel superior and in control if you're the one with the cash.

Hence why I said it's not necessarily about the actual act of sex as the feeling involved would be different it the girl was doing it for free. The involvement of money gives it a 'servant' type connotation that a lot of blokes find appealing - even if it's all in their heads, it's still an important factor

Obviously its the girls who call the shots the vast majority of the time, I dont think many people would deny that, unless they had just landed on the planet after a lifetime of deep space seclusion.

And, just for the record, I'm not against prostitution by any stretch of the imagination.

[Flubber]

Originally posted by Jon Miller
if you said guy who wanted to freely share his body, people would see nothing wrong with that (but the Moral types..)

I said girl since the most prostitutes are female and changing the sex adds in another variable

Originally posted by Jon Miller


inherent in prostitution is having to have sex in ways that you don't want to with people you don't want to

NO-- that might be inherent in some prostitution but I think its more accurate to say that women choose to have sex with people that they would not choose to for free, in order to earn money. . . But this is little different than any job. I wouldn't dig a ditch but I will if paid to do so.

The element is choice --- Do you think those expensive escorts go off with someone if they really really don't want to. Plus if you research at all on the subject, it seems like the girls set the rules as to what they do and don't allow. Now the crack hos might take anyone that comes their way but again they choose-- they choose to screw anyone for their next hit

Originally posted by Jon Miller

also, a decent ammount of prostitution sex is about dominance

I assume some of it is . . but I don't know. I also assume some of it is about guys getting a good looking girl to act like their girlfriend for a while.

Originally posted by Jon Miller
someone whose job is to muck out stables (And has nothing to do but that) is not, generally, doing that because of being dominated by the person who is employing him/her

Since I don't assume that domination is genesis of prostitution I don't necessarily accept your distinction here. Both are doing things that they might find distasteful for money. Heck, if offered the same money for the task, a prostitute might prefer to perform a sex act than shovel that manure. . . . and maybe just maybe if the customer was the type of guy she would find attractive in real life and he treated her with respect, she wouldn't find the acts of pleasuring him to be distastful at all

Originally posted by Jon Miller


it is different for prostitution (not all prostitution, but a decent portion of it)

I agree prostitution is different. For me, my negative feelings are because I WANT sex to be more special. Its the same reason I think for a person to sleep with a bunch of people is somewhat wrong but ultimately their choice.

But is that the knock on prostitution? A feeling that sex is special in a way that HOW DARE THEY SELL THE THING I SEE AS SPECIAL??

Because the distinction blurs. I can go to a certified masseuse and get a pleasurable back massage . . . I assume thats ok with everyone. Perhaps she massages buttocks and thighs and a sexual reaction occurrs-- is that now not ok? Does you assessment cahnge if I merely enjoy it without a sexual feeling??
Then instead you go to a massage parlour where a different part is massaged to an even more pleasuarble result.

Assuming this is wrong and reprehensible, at what point did it become wrong?? Is it when the customer felt something sexual? Or does it only become wrong if the massuse intends something sexual and therefore intended to sell something sexual?

If you want other shades of gray, lots of women date men in part because they have money. Its not overt prostitution but there are legions of women that sleep with men that they wouldn't if financial circumstances were different. Many of them weren't even conscious of it and would say they are with their guy because he is a great guy or whatever. But the good car, nice house and fancy dinners had an impact, even if they cannot acknowledge it.

[Flubber]

Originally posted by Verres
Hence why I said it's not necessarily about the actual act of sex as the feeling involved would be different it the girl was doing it for free. The involvement of money gives it a 'servant' type connotation that a lot of blokes find appealing - even if it's all in their heads, it's still an important factor

You see I thought that it would be that many guys just want the illusion of a girlfriend for just a little while . . . I would think they would want to forget the "pay for it aspect" and fantasize that the hot girls with them is really attracted to them. I remember seeing a documentry where escorts indicated that a suprising number of clients just seemed to want someone to act interested in them and that the sex was just a small part of that.


Perhaps I have a naive view of the clients. I see lonely men wheras it seems many posters on here see them as men who want to dominate and abuse women. I know that goes on as well but I see a typical client as a 50 year old guy who is tickled pink to have a 20 something hottie on his arm acting all interested

[Flubber]

I think that this thread is lacking from actual knowledge. All single apolytoner's who don't have a strong moral conviction against prostitution should immediately begin a reserach project into the topic and report back in a week

[Last Conformist]

Would you give me a research grant?

[Flubber]

Originally posted by Last Conformist
Would you give me a research grant?

I would have to see an application of course.

i expect to see a request for $1000 to see a supermodel but of course you'll end up getting $23.50 and then start looking for corporate sponsorship

[Last Conformist]

A supermodel? To get meaningful results, I'd need to sample the full scale of the business, from luxury courtesans to enslaved underage girls from Ukraine.

[Flubber]

Originally posted by Last Conformist
A supermodel? To get meaningful results, I'd need to sample the full scale of the business, from luxury courtesans to enslaved underage girls from Ukraine.

I am sure all of apolyton is aware of the sacrifice you are willing to undertake here.

To test your resolve we will give you $20 to sample the "50 year old crack addict" in the business for 30 years . . If you can tolerate that and bring back a detailed report, you may just ne the man for the job

[Alexander's Horse]

actually in an imperfect world prostitution does perform (excuse the pun ) some useful social functions.

Firstly it provides income for women, particulary in countries without a social safety net.

Secondly it gives sex deprived men an outlet, probably reducing sexual harrassment and rape in society.

There are a number of scenarios where married men would use prostitutes and this would be preferable to them having a girlfriend on the side, which would threaten the family.

One common one would be sexual dysfunction within the marriage. I'm not talking about anything perverse but where for example the wife was unable to have sex due to a medical condition. A painful menopause would be a common one, back pain another. The man still loves his wife but doesn't impose his sexual needs on her. The attraction of prostitutes is its a straight money transaction, no ties.

Its not the perfect solution but there is a reason why prostitution has been part of human society since earliest times.

[Jon Miller]

thanks for completely ignoring my post Flubber

JM

[MrFun]

Originally posted by Jon Miller
if you said guy who wanted to freely share his body, people would see nothing wrong with that (but the Moral types..)

and in a lot of groups, there is a lot of girls who do, and want to, freely share their body (well, with whoever is cute..)

inherent in prostitution is having to have sex in ways that you don't want to with people you don't want to

also, a decent ammount of prostitution sex is about dominance

someone whose job is to muck out stables (And has nothing to do but that) is not, generally, doing that because of being dominated by the person who is employing him/her

it is different for prostitution (not all prostitution, but a decent portion of it)

Jon Miller

good post

[Dinner]

Originally posted by Ned
But, of course, in such a communist paradise, few women would be prostitutes, would they not, as the profession would be no more remunerative than waitressing, for example. So, just how would the state supply the demand?

Aristophanes was an acient Greek play write who often fkirted with the idea of utopian societies. He was a contemperary of Sophicles and in his play Lysistrata women first stop a war between Athens & Sparta when the women of both cities agree to stop having sex with their husbands until the men agree to stop the war. Emboldened by their success in stopping the war the women take over the government and institute the "Ultimate Democracy" where all land & goods belong collectively and everyone gets an equal share. One of the men points out that men will still compete for and fight over women so the women come up with a plan where every man & every women gets to have sex with who ever they want when ever they want. The catch is the oldest men and women get to choose they want first and the youngest have to wait until everyone older is done.

It would never work but it's a novel idea.

[Dinner]

Originally posted by Dissident

I didn't realize you've been down to Baja California. I've always been interested in going down there.

Yeah, I used to go to Rosarito Beach all the time for surfing and cheap beer when I was to young to get into American bars. I've never driven all the way to Cabo before but I'd like to then maybe take the ferry over to the mainland and drive north on the other side of the Gulf of California.

[Flubber]

Originally posted by Jon Miller
thanks for completely ignoring my post Flubber

JM

huh??

I quoted your last one at length and responded to almost every sentence

[Jon Miller]

you didn't respond to my post though...

didn't respond once to my issues of domination..

people don't hire people to shovel their stables, and then call them **** the entire time...

it happens in prostitution

of prostitutes were respected, and the people involved did it because they enjoyed sex, then I wouldn't have nearly the problem I do now..

but as it is, it is a way that mostly women are made to feel that they are less then men, and for men to feel that they are better then women

this isn't something our culture should encourage...

Jon Miller