Prostitution

[Rufus T. Firefly]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Prostitution

Originally posted by Vince278


I also believe the US recently enacted such a law. It would be hard to enforce. I believe they will arrest you here if you were arrested there. Costa Rica was used as an example.

Actually, it looks like we're about to nail somebody on this one in the Philippines this week.

[Brundlefly]

Oerdin, I am interested to hear about your Costa Rica trip. Maybe you could make a seperate thread about that.

Prostitution is a blight upon any community anywhere in the world. It perpetuates social dysfunction in the consumer, who forgoes development of social skills that would attract a lover in favor of simply purchasing some "love", as well as in the producer, who forgoes development of skills that would allow them to contribute to society in a more meaningful way in favor of "easy money", at the expense of their integrity, which makes them feel bad about themselves, which makes them use drugs, which makes them see themselves as a victim, etc., etc..

It's a government's responsibility to reduce drug trafficking and make sure there is enough jobs available so that prostitution does not seem like a viable option. The poorer countries struggle with this and should get more support from the international community. I would hope that there is not a tacit approval of prostitution by governments in such countries as a means to promote tourism..

[Dinner]

Reposted from my CG thread.

Costa Rica is an absolutely amazing country and I'd recommend it to anyone. The first day we landed in the capital of San Jose then drove Volcan Arenal National Park were one of the world's most active volcanoes is located along with a series of hot springs which form an entire river whose water is around 105 degrees F.

The Trebicon hot springs were filled with honeymooning couples and it was easy to see why since there were series natural pools, waterfalls, and at least four streams on the 20 acre property. The lush jungle landscaping and the maze of stone lined walking paths made for a series of secluded pools and grottos where couples could be alone or you could hang out in the many large pools (some natural and some man made) where there were both hot and cold waterfalls, a steam filled cave which acted like a sauna, and a cool swim up bar. There was also a great restaurant which served Costa Rican or European food along with miles of trails in the jungle where you could take either guided or unguided tours of the volcano and the surrounding area. That night we went back to our suite at the Lost Iguana resort where we sat in the Jacuzzi in our private backyard and watched the volcano erupt. Watching the lava shoot out of the volcano and seeing the light reflect off of Lake Arenal was just a perfect end to the day.

Next we went to the small beachside town of Tamerindo which was known for massive surf, a huge night life scene, and a total lack of the usual tourist junk shops & places owned by western multinationals. Tamarindo is pretty remote and only the main road is paved but the place was filled with both local surfers and North American kids who wanted to spend the summer surfing in a cheap but fun place. We kayaked out to Isla Capitan off the coast then spent three hours snorkeling on the coral reef. The coral on the Pacific side isn't as colorful as on the Caribbean side but there was still plenty to see including tuna, shrimp, puffer fish (the guide caught one of those and we got to see how the fish inflated itself up), shell cracker shrimp (these shrimp have claws so strong they break the shells of hermit crabs or clams so they can eat the soft creature inside), numerous lobster, and more coral then you could shake a stick at. That night we went out partying at one of the many night clubs (which were mostly filled with western tourists) and got totally drunk. It was kind of annoying that drug dealers kept asking us to buy MJ and cocaine but I guess that's just part of visiting one of these places.

The next day I tried surfing at Playa Negra and got my ass totally kicked by 25 foot waves. I'd never surfed anything that big before and the board was only 9 feet long (I normally use a longer 10 foot board) so I missed the first four sets, caught the fifth set but fell off since the wave was so steep I kind of got nervous, then totally wiped out on the sixth set and ended up breaking the rented board in two. That was the end of me trying to surf in Costa Rica and I had to pay a $60 repair fee to fix the broken board. Later that day we all went down to a spa and spent $40 for an hour long deep tissue massage and another $15 for a facial. I had felt tired from all the swimming, walking, kayaking, etc... But the massage really helped and it was about a 1/4 the price it would have cost in the US.

Our next stop was the Monteverde Cloud Forest National Park where some of the best preserved and most extensive cloud forests left in Central America are located. Monteverde is high up in the mountains so it's cooler then on the coast and the amount of wildlife found here is incredible. We had a family of monkeys living right by our cabin and they'd steal things you left on the porch if you weren't careful (one of those bastards stole an open bottle of beer from me then sat in the tree across from me and drank the whole thing). In Monteverde we did a jungle canopy tour where they hook you up to a series of steel cables then slide on a little harness & wheel through the tree tops to get a bird's eye view of the different layers of the jungle. They also had a section where you repelled down a cliff face and another where you did a Tarzan swing on a rope, then it ended with a 700m (!!!!) long zip line across the valley back to our starting point. The canopy tour was awesome. After that we went horse back riding on several private ranches (it was really cool since the fog came in at certain parts but cleared up at other parts) and the horses were very spirited so they'd gallup on command which was great. During the horse back riding we stopped at the farm/ranch were the horses' owner lived where his wife made us mango & milk smoothies (the milk was from the farm's cows), then we he tempted some semi-tame monkeys out of the trees with bits of bread and had the monkeys climb all over us. He told us not to reach out to the monkeys since they'd bit your hand but just to let the monkeys do what ever they want. I was fine with this until one monkey, who'd been sitting on my shoulder, decided to climb into my shirt and just hang out there. I know he was playing but the little guy had some really sharp claws (talk about having a monkey on your back ). Next we got to sample some of the crops growing on the farm like papaya, mangos, sugar cane, corn, saw the live stock (horses, cows, goats, sheep, two pigs, ducks, rabbits, and curiously enough guinea pigs. That night we took a night time guided tour of the jungle and the guild showed us many nocturnal inhabitants of the jungle including a two toed tree sloth, a Kikachue (spelling? It's the size of a large cat but it looks like a cross between a lemur and raccoon but lives in trees), numerous bats, god knows how many insects (including a one pound cockroach which is known to eat young birds), and he pointed out several eatable plants along with several plants which the natives used for medicine (including the plant which scientists used to create a treatment for Parkinson’s disease which they were told about by an Indian medicine man). The last thing we did in Monteverde was take a tour of a small coffee farm; the local coffee growers have forms a co-op which specializes in organic, fair trade coffee and the high mountain setting of Monteverde is where the best coffee in Costa Rica is grown. I bought a ton of coffee to give away as gifts to family and friends. The coffee really was the best I'd ever tasted.

Lastly, we drove to Jaco so we could make a day trip to Manuel Antonia National Park. Jaco was a popular resort town in the 1970's but now days it's popularity has slid and now everything is owned by the big multinational chains. There isn't much there which can't be done cheaper/better else where in the country plus the main business in Jaco seems to be the international sex trade. Bus loads of fat bald 50 year old western "tourists" go to Jaco to take advantage of the booming prostitution business there. My friends and I quickly got bored of this town and headed south to Manual Antonia National park which is a large ocean front national park preserving an excellent example of the beach front low land jungle.

The jungle grew right up to the high tide mark and there were all manner of tropical fruits growing there while iguanas, crabs, monkeys, and these strange large tailless rodents (they looked like smaller versions of capybaras which were about the size of a cat) could all be seen feeding on the fallen fruit. The sheer amount of wildlife which can be seen here along with the rarity of finding preserved ocean front jungle makes Manuel Antonia National Park a must see.

Finally we returned to San Jose were we stayed at the Amistad Hotel and went out clubbing all night then caught a 4am flight back to the states. San Jose had a few good museums (the museum of pre-Columbian gold houses the largest collection of pre-Columbian gold in Central America) but mostly the city just sucks. It's dirty, it's over run with hookers, and there isn't much to see. The clubs are either super load clubs where the locals hang out of they are tourist orientated "clubs" which cater to the sex trade. If you go to Costa Rica I'd skip San Jose and go directly to one of the numerous wonderful national parks or other attractions in the rest of the country.

[Ramo]

Unionized prostitution.

[Alexander's Horse]

not content with just f*cking up the USA, the christian right is getting all sorts of laws enacted around the world

[pchang]

I would have thouth that even you would agree that child pornography is a bad thing and that pedophiles in rich countries should not be able to get a free pass by perpetrating their crimes in poor countries.

[Dinner]

What I really don't get is that Costa Rica has a per capita income of around $9000 which is one of the highest in Latin America. The education standards are high, literacy is high, and the population is relatively low so there is still enough land to go around yet prostitution seems to be wide spread. I imagine that if we really looked a good many of the girls would be from other poorer countries in Latin America but the majority seemed to be local girls.

I'm just kind of baffled how so many relatively well off young ladies (compared to neighboring countries) are going in to such a dirty, degrading, and dangerous business.

[Jon Miller]

apparently prostitution is on the up among young relatively well off ladies in the US as well

or at least, so a psychology grad student was telling me

Jon Miller

[Dis]

Originally posted by DaShi


Actually, you're completely wrong on this issue, UR. Go back and read some of my prior posts regarding the sex trade in South East Asia. During my research for it I discovered that Chinese businessmen not only make up the largest proportion of people partaking in the sex industry there, but also are the most common to request underage girls. I believe that the Last Conformist has your number on this one.

shhh, you don't want people to lose the stereotype that paedophiles are all white men.

[Brundlefly]

I have another Costa Rica question, Oerdin. Just want to know how you made your travel arrangements: did you do it online or with a travel agent? Was it a 3-city package or did you just get air down there and then improvise your lodging as you traveled to each city?

[Dis]

you aren't going down there for the prostitutes I hope .

We have those here where I live. And you can be assured they aren't doing it because they are forced to, to pay off some debt.

[Alexander's Horse]

Originally posted by Oerdin
What I really don't get is that Costa Rica has a per capita income of around $9000 which is one of the highest in Latin America. The education standards are high, literacy is high, and the population is relatively low so there is still enough land to go around yet prostitution seems to be wide spread. I imagine that if we really looked a good many of the girls would be from other poorer countries in Latin America but the majority seemed to be local girls.

I'm just kind of baffled how so many relatively well off young ladies (compared to neighboring countries) are going in to such a dirty, degrading, and dangerous business.

But is it true that every girl who approached you was on the game? Maybe its the mighty green card they're after. Or maybe they were just being friendly to the gringo.

[Thoth]

Re: Re: Re: Prostitution

Originally posted by Oerdin


I believe the US has a similiar law but I don't recall anyone ever being charged with it. Since these sex tour operators don't seem to have trouble locating clients (there were bus loads of fat, bald, 50 year old men from western countries who seemed to be on organized sex tours) I imagine it wouldn't be hard for the government to find out more info if they tried.

This was the first time anyone in Canada had been charged under the law. It didn't serve as a test case because he pleaded guilty. A "good" lawyer could probably make the case that the law violates our Charter of Rights. While I personally think that the kind of scumbag who goes on sex tourism trips to have sex with underage girls deserves to be punished, I don't like the precedent this kind of law represents.

It could be interpreted to mean that you could be held accountable for any act comitted anywhere and jailed upon entering another country. (ie: alcohol is illegal in some countries, I have consumed alcohol in my lifetime so if I were to visit one of those countries I could be arrested. The scale is different, but the legal principle looks the same to me)

[Flubber]

Originally posted by Last Conformist
All the world should adopt Sweden's schizophrenic prostitution laws; it's illegal to buy sexual services, but not to sell them.

Or Canada's

Prostitution is NOT illegal but communicating IN A PUBLIC PLACE for the purpose of priostitution is illegal as is being "found in " a common bawdy house (brothel)


So in Canada, you must almost certainly break the law if you pick up a streetwalker or go to a massage parlour but break no laws at all if you call and book an escort.

[Flubber]

Originally posted by MrFun


The reason is that prostituion is inherently sexist in which "customers" are predominantly male seeking the "service" of preomdinantly females. It's an unequal system, in which male "customers" can take advantage of the fact that most female prostitutes are impoverished.

I won't dipute you that that may be the case in most situations. I just know that I work about a block from the high end stroll in Calgary and I have seen the working girls pull up in rather fancy vehicles and they wear rather elaborate outfits . Whether these things are theirs or if some pimp is involved, I have no idea.

Apparently there is another phenomenon I have heard about. Apparently a LOT of the streetwalkers in Calgary come out from Vancouver on a regular basis, flying here for "work". I found that odd but apparently Vancouver has so very many girls that its too competitive. This could be an economic factor since Calgary generally is beeter off so fewer girls see the need to go into this "business"